70d bounce flash

John from PA wrote in post #17812004
Perhaps it is time to add some comments to the Facebook page of Chuck Westfall.

https://www.facebook.c​om …westfall?ref=br​_rs&__nodl

EXCELLENT !

I will post this on the 70D thread also - it would be amazing if everyone could take a moment and ask him:

As a 70D user - I am wondering when a fix for the ETTL underexposure bounce flash issue will get a fix? Thank-you for your attention.

Bassat wrote in post #17811891
Canon fixed nothing. I'd post examples, but they are the same as before I sent it in.

What really P!$$#$ me off is that:

I sent it in twice. Both times with examples and thorough explanations.
I chatted with Tech support twice on this issue.
I emailed two different techs on this issue.
I SPECIFICALLY asked them to check bounce flash ETTL exposure.
When they told me the camera was done I called again.
I asked, "Was it tested with bounce flash?" Yes.
I asked, "Is my repaired camera able to properly expose a bounced flash shot in EVALUATIVE FLASH METERING AND ETTL?" Yes.
It most certainly is not.

Canon must hire their techs from the pool of Best Buy Geek Squad rejects. Twice they sent me back a camera doing the exact same thing it was doing when I sent it in. They claim to have tested it. BULLSPIT! Had they actually tested bounce flash, either time I sent it in, they would have realized it doesn't work. Which tells me some pizza-faced 19-year-old tech wannabe plugged my camera into a tester and got all the right numbers. The snot-nosed little tally-whacker likely doesn't even understand the term 'bounce flash'.

I quit. The 70D is not capable of bounce flash unless FEL is used. $#!T.

Mind boggling for sure!
My standard now is to have them hold off returning the camera until they share photos created from the test condition necessary to replicate the issues.

I think now is the time where you use those two email addresses, copying your conversation dialog, and the other conversation where they say it was tested. Include a copy of the return worksheet. Hope for the best, but don't spend more time on it. You can also indicate this thread has lead to class action attorney who approached you. Strong case given that it is fully reproducible.

Ok, I just gave him a message:

Greetings Chuck, my name is Will. As a 70D user - I am wondering when a fix for the underexposure bounce flash issue will get a fix? Bryan C from The Digital Picture is also aware of this 70D issue. Thank-you for your attention. Best regards,

Bassat wrote in post #17811913
Thanks. You are aware that none of that has anything to do with the 70D's inability to use bounce flash, right?

Yes, but my point is that it seems every Canon model behaves just a bit differently...we saw 20D and 30D needing +1EV in FEC simply to get proper ETTL exposure, but that need went away on the 40D. We have seen in some newer Canon models other changes in flash programming and behavior, which might account for the 70D model to behave differently (and not restricted to the OP's camera specifically)

And my comment about Curtis N's finding simply was to illustrate that perhaps the bounce behavior (in the 70D) happens to be sensitive to which Flash meter mode is being used (Evaluative vs. Averaging) so that OP could experiment and perhaps find a better behavior than he has now.

TWO years ago I posted this, when somebody was complaining about 70D flash behavior!

Wilt wrote in post #16521870
Back in the days of the 20D and 30D, it was routine that folks would need to almost perpetually dial in FEC = +1 in order to have a well exposed shot with ETTL flash. Well documented by many on POTN threads back then. Then, magically, when I got my 40D that need for FEC went away! Perhaps the 70D just returns to the 'good old days' (good?...yeah right!) of the 20D/30D

Shot with 20D with FEC = 0

vengence wrote in post #17742309
As for the 70D, I own one and it's completely consistent using manual mode and ETTL with even an offbrand like the yongnuo 600ex-rt. It needs about 1.5 to 2 stops of increase flash power when bouncing. It takes about 2 seconds to dial that in, and every shot comes out fine. Bouncing is notorious for needing additional flash exposure compensation.

But any ETTL flash exposure flash SHOULD achieve SAME EXPOSURE regardless of direct flash vs. bounce flash vs. in-softbox flash...it should emit an amount of light which enters the lens and is measured during pre-flash, and the camera should then command the flash to give MORE light (or less light) to achieve 'proper exposure'.
It is the same sensor in the camera being used for all flash metering, it is still reading light entering the lens during pre-flash...so WHY would there ever be ANY difference in exposure result (as long as the flash is not being commanded to give 'more than full power' -- which it cannot, of course).

Bassat wrote in post #17811891
Canon fixed nothing. I'd post examples, but they are the same as before I sent it in.

......

I quit. The 70D is not capable of bounce flash unless FEL is used. $#!T.

I have also been following this thread and was really hoping you would have some success one way or another. As one who just switched to a 70D (unfortunately before I became aware of this issue), I would consider switching to a 7D2 but I have concerns with the focus issues.

So, I just picked up a 17-55 for the constant f/2.8 which seems to perform fairly well with the bounce flash, at least better than the variable aperture zooms, so I think I can live with my 70D for now.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

I have calmed down from my considerable disappointment yesterday. First, thanks to Frodge for highlighting this problem in the first place. And thanks to everyone who chipped in with suggestions and the like. Whoever posted the FEL work-around has at least given us an option. Wilt has some valid points, above, about other cameras and ETTL bounce flash. All-in-all, I enjoyed the mental challenge of documenting the issue. Thanks for reading along, and for all the encouragement.

Just so you know, I'll be keeping my 70D, too. So far, it does what I bought it for. The AI-SERVO auto-focus is much better than my 6D. The DPAF with STM for live-view and video is still miles above any previous dSLR. Lastly, I am good enough with flash to deal with this (relatively) minor issue and still make decent photos. In the end, I still have a 6D and a pile of nice lenses and accessories.

I considered buying a 7D Mark II. I have done enough reading to come to the conclusion that the focus issues with it are confined to a few copies, and a few users. It is not a prevalent problem. That said, I am not in the mood to give Canon any more money right now. The main advantage of the 7D II is its AF. I don't need that; my 70D does what I need it to do, with the small exception of bounce flash. I am way more disappointed in Canon and the way it is handling (NOT) this issue, than in my 70D.

Bassat wrote in post #17812421
I have calmed down from my considerable disappointment yesterday. First, thanks to Frodge for highlighting this problem in the first place. And thanks to everyone who chipped in with suggestions and the like. Whoever posted the FEL work-around has at least given us an option. Wilt has some valid points, above, about other cameras and ETTL bounce flash. All-in-all, I enjoyed the mental challenge of documenting the issue. Thanks for reading along, and for all the encouragement.

Just so you know, I'll be keeping my 70D, too. So far, it does what I bought it for. The AI-SERVO auto-focus is much better than my 6D. The DPAF with STM for live-view and video is still miles above any previous dSLR. Lastly, I am good enough with flash to deal with this (relatively) minor issue and still make decent photos. In the end, I still have a 6D and a pile of nice lenses and accessories.

I considered buying a 7D Mark II. I have done enough reading to come to the conclusion that the focus issues with it are confined to a few copies, and a few users. It is not a prevalent problem. That said, I am not in the mood to give Canon any more money right now. The main advantage of the 7D II is its AF. I don't need that; my 70D does what I need it to do, with the small exception of bounce flash. I am way more disappointed in Canon and the way it is handling (NOT) this issue, than in my 70D.

Nothing against Frodge he seems like a good standup guy who wants to upgrade but hasn't been given a reasonable path, but given Canon's outright refusal to address this, I think you would be better off haven't never heard of this. Less stress more satisfaction with your gear more excitement for your future gear purchases etc. As they say..."Ignorance is bliss."

Time will tell very shortly if 70D users even care... Options to address this have been given as recent as yesterday, posting to/messaging Chuck Westfall on FB.

If 70D users don't bring it to his attention, or Canon in general - that - as they say - is that.

Instead of griping on a thread with no action.

Bassat, you earn a cookie.

I posted a call to action on the 70D thread and seems to have fallen on deaf ears. I did message C. W. of Canon.

Immaculens wrote in post #17812734
Time will tell very shortly if 70D users even care... Options to address this have been given as recent as yesterday, posting to/messaging Chuck Westfall on FB.

If 70D users don't bring it to his attention, or Canon in general - that - as they say - is that.

Instead of griping on a thread with no action.

Bassat, you earn a cookie.

I posted a call to action on the 70D thread and seems to have fallen on deaf ears. I did message C. W. of Canon.

If the cookie is oatmeal with butterscotch chips, I'll take it!

I contacted CW directly, also. This issue is everywhere. There is NO FLIPPIN' WAY Canon is not fully aware of this. Look on the 70D forums at Canon.com. Canon posts the same stupid, irrelevant $#!T as I got with back with my non-repaired camera, as official responses. If the 1Dx had this problem, Canon would be kissing my mule to fix it, and sending me a free loaner while they did ACTUALLY fix it. They were all over the 5D Mark III light leak problem E-FRIGGIN'-MEDIATELY.

My theory is that Canon knows that nobody with a Rebel/XXD has ever actually upgraded to a 'real' camera. Why bother with the unwashed masses of 'cheap' camera users? "Let them eat P&Ss"

Buy used at a low price and Canon won't get your money. If you don't like it, sell it and you will lose nothing.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17812779
Buy used at a low price and Canon won't get your money. If you don't like it, sell it and you will lose nothing.

Selling a 7DII for ~$900?

you can pay close to that for a 7DII new...they're at $1,049 with $350 MIR, and bundled with a pixma pro-100 printer...sell the printer for $100...

Be patient, they will hit that level again, they were quite close at one point. It just takes Canon to do another refurb special like a few in the past few months, and the used market will adjust accordingly. However if you want one sooner than later, you will probably have to pony up another $200 for where they are selling at this moment.

I do check Canon refurbished prices every day. Both 7DII body and 5DIII body have been out of stock for weeks. Not sure I'd pull the trigger, but....