Lighting/Backdrop Purchase Advice? Review my Ideas?

Hey guys, I'm looking at buying equipment for at home studio photography of people.

Just to be clear, I have no idea what I'm doing, so bear with me. I apologize in advance for what are probably very amateur questions.

For my needs, I'm really looking for bang-for-the-buck. Good, but doesn't have to be the best. Think passably professional. And with sufficient versatility because I feel artsy.

I've been looking online and have some ideas, and I want your opinions on whether these are good or bad options, let me know if things are incompatible, if I'm missing things I should include, etc. Again, I don't know anything.

Lights: Bowens Gemini 400Rx kit. This comes with two, and I'd get two pair for a total of 4 lights.
(Also, question, do these stay on or are they like a flash? I don't know how to tell the difference.)

Oh, I guess I should probably also get at least one boom arm. Will those stands handle the weight leverage if I give it a counterweight? And are the attachments one size? Like any arm should fit?

Softboxes: Bowens Lumiair 60-80 Softbox Is that right with those lights? Not sure what to look for. And I'm thinking only three of these because I'm poor and I'd already have the umbrellas anyway.

Egg Crates: Bowens 40 Degree Soft Egg Crate Two of these. Looks fun. And only two because money, and that's at least enough to put two behind the subject.

A few barn door attachments would also be great too but I couldn't find them.

Reflectors: Impact 5-in-1 Collapsible Oval Reflector - 42x72" Is that size overkill or would it be usefull for a full body photo? Also not sure what stand to use. Think I could just clip it to a microphone stand and save some money? I have endless quantities of mic stands.

And an umbrella reflector.

Backdrops: Is this hella cheap or is this what these are supposed to cost?
And I also wasn't sure about the actual backdrops. Like which brands to buy from. I'd want a grey, white, and black. 10 feet wide and I'm guessing pretty long if I want feet in the picture. Suggestions?

End goal is around $3000ish. I realize I'm slightly over, but close enough is good enough. Just don't want to spend too much.

Thanks!

Heya,

$3k is too much as it is, for entering indoor flash photography. You can do it for $500.

Things to consider:

How much space? This dictates a lot about your lighting and options. You don't need $3k strobes for a little room in the house.
You're shooting indoors, you will not need much power in terms of light, you're not over-powering the sun or shooting at F1.4 in the sun.
If you're clueless or know nothing about this stuff, drop your budget. Learn some lighting by doing it. Then expand with the rest of your budget.

You can get strobes that are about as powerful or more powerful than a speedlite for $100, and that's more than enough. The point would be to have them able to be plugged in, fast recycle times, no batteries, etc, and just shoot all you want and learn how to mold, shape, control and capture light. You could use strobes or speedlites, depends what you want, and if you ever want to go portable. But speedlites are more than powerful enough to handle indoor small studio stuff. And lots of them can be plugged into power packs that plug into the wall and become little "strobes" if you will. Lots of options here. All way, way under budget.

Modifiers really help you shape and control light. If you're in a small room, it will make a huge impact having massive 72" modifiers in a little room to the point of it being crowded out.

You're doing full body, indoor portraits. So, what focal length? I hope you're trying to do it at telephoto for a flattering look, and not using a wide angle for this (wider than 35mm). The point is you want to be far away from the subject, which requires telephoto, to flatten the image. On that note, you don't n eed fast primes for indoor light photos like this, and you generally stop down to help control light and sharpen it up. You don't need shallow depth of field, so what lens you use here is a lot more forgiving, when you're crafting and capturing light. But it does put a lot of emphasis on the space you have to shoot in.

Try to describe how much space you have to work with and your overall goals. Again I would not go for a $3k entry budget. Start under $1k. Save the other $2k for later when you've done it a while and get an idea of what you really want to do and how you're really doing it.

Very best,

The room is L shaped. 37 feet by 31 feet, and 20 feet diagonally at the corner. The 37 foot direction has stuff in it, so I picture where I will be using this, I have 31 feet to work with, and about a 9 ceiling. Drop ceilings though, and if absolutely necessary, I could remote tiles giving me up to about 12 feet. Probably will avoid that though.

I can't imagine that I would commonly be doing full body photos. I'd like it to be possible, but it's not the most important thing.

I don't really want to take it in stages if I can avoid it. The goal is to be well equipped. Mid priced, not cheapest possible. I'll look at other options and see. Basically, this is going to be thrown up and taken down in a recording studio so I can get good looking photos of bands/singers in house because I'm an obsessive "If you want it done right, do it yourself" kind of person. It'll be sort of a one stop shop. Very easy sell, because they'll already be here. I'm aiming for a magizine-ish look, trying to get as close as I can to things like this or this. Something a little flashy that doesn't look like your typical band photo in the woods (God I hate those) or girl with her guitar in nature (cringe) that will give artists a more professional image and impress other potential clients. The way I see it, investing a few thousand in lights and such would ironically probably get more work than if I bought another $3000 microphone. And options are good. Watching things like this has been getting me feeling really creative. (By the way, I didn't notice that he's using mostly the same brand as my list when I watched that the first time. I'm not just a victim of marketing, I swear.)

What size reflector would you suggest for my room size?

Clueless Novice wrote in post #17747436
Lights: Bowens Gemini 400Rx kit. This comes with two, and I'd get two pair for a total of 4 lights.
(Also, question, do these stay on or are they like a flash? I don't know how to tell the difference.)

They're flash rather than continuous. They include a modelling light which gives you an approximate of how the lighting will look when you fire the flash.

Clueless Novice wrote in post #17747436
Oh, I guess I should probably also get at least one boom arm. Will those stands handle the weight leverage if I give it a counterweight? And are the attachments one size? Like any arm should fit?

The stands included with that kit are BW-6605, they're good stands but they're meant for lightweight duties. A boom arm properly counter balanced is quite a heavy load, so while you could get away with it on that stand especially if you're not mounting much it would be much better to get a stand meant for the task.

Clueless Novice wrote in post #17747436
Softboxes: Bowens Lumiair 60-80 Softbox Is that right with those lights? Not sure what to look for. And I'm thinking only three of these because I'm poor and I'd already have the umbrellas anyway.

Yes that's the correct fitting (Bowens uses s-fit and is probably the most common fitting available) but that's a fairly small softbox and it's quite an expensive one. Your choice of softbox should be determined by what you intend to do with it and your environment, it wouldn't matter if a 70 inch softbox is what you need for the right look when you can't fit it in the room etc.

Clueless Novice wrote in post #17747436
Egg Crates: Bowens 40 Degree Soft Egg Crate Two of these. Looks fun. And only two because money, and that's at least enough to put two behind the subject.

I believe these are actually Lighttools grids, extremely well made and also among the most expensive. You could buy a generic Softbox that's reasonably good quality and it would include a grid for less than the cost of the Bowens softboxes you were looking at.

Clueless Novice wrote in post #17747436
A few barn door attachments would also be great too but I couldn't find them.

They sell an attachment barn door that fits onto their maxilite reflector, it's quite well made but again, expensive.

Clueless Novice wrote in post #17747436
And an umbrella reflector.

You probably don't need a silver brolly when you'd have 4 Bowens silver/white ones.

Clueless Novice wrote in post #17747436
Backdrops: Is this hella cheap or is this what these are supposed to cost?

It's probably a non woven fabric backdrop, they're cheap because they're crap.

Clueless Novice wrote in post #17747436
And I also wasn't sure about the actual backdrops. Like which brands to buy from. I'd want a grey, white, and black. 10 feet wide and I'm guessing pretty long if I want feet in the picture. Suggestions?

Lastolite?

Clueless Novice wrote in post #17747436
End goal is around $3000ish. I realize I'm slightly over, but close enough is good enough. Just don't want to spend too much.

I'm not sure the Bowens kit is the best approach for this, the older kits they sold which included a Softbox would actually have saved you money but it looks like they're not including them with their cheaper kits anymore. The real problem you've got though is you're burning a lot of your budget on admittedly good pieces but they're probably wasted on you at this point.

Do you really need to drop half a grand on a couple of grids? You could spend half a grand getting several softboxes which include grids and they would be of more benefit to you than 2 grids or 4 of the same sized softboxes.

So as has been suggested, give us an idea of exactly what you plan to be shooting before jumping at the kit as you will waste a lot of money this way.

simonbarker wrote in post #17747810
Yes that's the correct fitting (Bowens uses s-fit and is probably the most common fitting available) but that's a fairly small softbox and it's quite an expensive one. Your choice of softbox should be determined by what you intend to do with it and your environment, it wouldn't matter if a 70 inch softbox is what you need for the right look when you can't fit it in the room etc.

I believe these are actually Lighttools grids, extremely well made and also among the most expensive. You could buy a generic Softbox that's reasonably good quality and it would include a grid for less than the cost of the Bowens softboxes you were looking at.

Oh, okay cool. I'll look for that. Honestly, this is the result of a day on Google shopping. I don't know how to gauge the price of anything, which is part of why I'm here. I wanted experienced opinions to decipher this mess.

simonbarker wrote in post #17747810
It's probably a non woven fabric backdrop, they're cheap because they're crap.

Lastolite?

What should I expect a backdrop and backdrop stand to cost? And what material is ideal to just look plain?

simonbarker wrote in post #17747810
I'm not sure the Bowens kit is the best approach for this, the older kits they sold which included a Softbox would actually have saved you money but it looks like they're not including them with their cheaper kits anymore. The real problem you've got though is you're burning a lot of your budget on admittedly good pieces but they're probably wasted on you at this point.

That's fine. I'm good to do something totally different. What would you suggest?

simonbarker wrote in post #17747810
Do you really need to drop half a grand on a couple of grids? You could spend half a grand getting several softboxes which include grids and they would be of more benefit to you than 2 grids or 4 of the same sized softboxes.

I can't find what you're talking about. How much should these cost?

simonbarker wrote in post #17747810
So as has been suggested, give us an idea of exactly what you plan to be shooting before jumping at the kit as you will waste a lot of money this way.

Photos of bands/singers who come through the recording studio. I want to have in house photography to give a polished professional image. Goal is a magizine-ish appearance, like 1 2 3 4 or even something dramatic and artsy like this, but not greyscale. I love how dark it is with that bright edge from behind her. Looks so cool. Versatility is good.

Room is an L shape, 37' by 31' and 20' diagonally from the corner, with a roughly 9' ceiling. There are things in the way on the 37' side, so I would be using the 31' side.

Clueless Novice wrote in post #17747893
Oh, okay cool. I'll look for that. Honestly, this is the result of a day on Google shopping. I don't know how to gauge the price of anything, which is part of why I'm here. I wanted experienced opinions to decipher this mess.

The price is about average for that kind of product, you're buying a flash kit from a major brand so you'd end up paying the same if you were to get something from Elinchrom etc. I'm not in the US so I'm less familiar with some of the brands that are available there (Flashpoint, Photogenic but they're mostly re-brands) and we're in a time of change as there's a bunch of convincing and cheap products available from companies like Jinbei etc.

I like Bowens a lot but their kit is outdated and expensive, they do make some pretty well made pieces but unless you're beating the hell out of it everyday you do start to question the wisdom of spending 5 times the price on a reflector etc. You wouldn't/shouldn't regret buying it but your money can go further.

Clueless Novice wrote in post #17747893
What should I expect a backdrop and backdrop stand to cost? And what material is ideal to just look plain?

Main choices are muslin, vinyl or seamless paper and they all have strengths and weaknesses. I use paper, I don't have to worry about folds or cleaning the material as I can just throw away whatever I've used but any material would fulfill your need of looking plain. Cost is trickier to answer, there's some halfway decent generic asian backdrop kits which are pretty cheap but there's also some horrible ones, if you spend the extra on something from someone like Manfrotto, Lastolite or Calumet you do lose more money but you never need worry about it being insufficient either.

Clueless Novice wrote in post #17747893
That's fine. I'm good to do something totally different. What would you suggest?

As I mentioned because I'm not in North America I can't really give you the best advice here.

Clueless Novice wrote in post #17747893
I can't find what you're talking about. How much should these cost?

Just as an example Fotodiox seems to be popular here, a quick glance suggests you could buy a couple of strips, rectangular and an octagonal softboxes for less than 2 of the Bowens grids would cost you. As an added bonus they're the easy up designs so you don't waste any time assembling them which isn't an option for most Bowens kit but Fotodiox is far from unique, there's a lot of this kind of product being sold now.

Clueless Novice wrote in post #17747893
Photos of bands/singers who come through the recording studio. I want to have in house photography to give a polished professional image. Goal is a magizine-ish appearance, like 1 2 3 4 or even something dramatic and artsy like this, but not greyscale. I love how dark it is with that bright edge from behind her. Looks so cool. Versatility is good.

Room is an L shape, 37' by 31' and 20' diagonally from the corner, with a roughly 9' ceiling. There are things in the way on the 37' side, so I would be using the 31' side.

Sounds like that's a sufficient space not to cause you too many problems besides the ceiling height. To evenly light the background you'll need two lights just for that but I agree with the other poster you should do some practice to understand how this stuff actually works, it's not how you might think but it shouldn't take you long to get a working grasp.

Three PCB B1600 = 1077
Three Cybersyncs = 270
One CyberCommander = 180 = 1500 for the lights, receivers and controller/trigger.

One PCB beauty dish = 80
Two 60x90cm softboxes with grids = 140

4 C stands = 420
1 boom arm = 120
sandbags = 25
Muslin clamps = 18
2 super clamps = 54
Background rod hooks = 14
gray background = 70
Background cross bar = 20

The above list gives you three 640ws lights that can be controlled remotely, a light meter (part of the remote), C stands (much more stable than any light stand in the price range, and more space efficient), two softboxes (you'll find 70" to be overkill for most things), a beauty dish, a gray background, 4 sandbags, muslin clamps, a solid boom arm, and almost everything you need to hang a background (minus some 2x4s) for under $2500. That will leave you plenty of money to source barn doors and gels, umbrellas, grids, etc. as you figure out what you want. As you've seen, umbrellas can be had quite cheap. Same goes for barndoor and gel kits.

The super clamps and J hooks I listed can be used to mount a background rod onto a 2x4 run down the wall. I use 2x4s (spaced off the wall by a 16" long section of 2x4 mounted underneath) to mount my backgrounds. They take up way less space than stands and it's easier to stretch the background over them and clamp it in place.

I wouldn't recommend jumping on a chromakey background.

I'd second Scatterbrained's gear list. Based on what I read above, Clueless Novice, it seemed to me you were leaving out hard light modifiers (unless those Bowens units ship with bowl reflectors, like the AlienBees do). Since your subjects will be principally musicians, many times you'll want the edgy and moody look that can only be obtained with hard light. A beauty dish is an excellent light former to have: it can give you soft light and hard light and plenty of in-between; it's also easier and faster to mount (no assembly required) and it won't blow away in the wind if you're shooting outside, like brollies and boxes would.

Scatterbrained wrote in post #17748091
Three PCB B1600 = 1077
Three Cybersyncs = 270
One CyberCommander = 180 = 1500 for the lights, receivers and controller/trigger.

One PCB beauty dish = 80
Two 60x90cm softboxes with grids = 140

4 C stands = 420
1 boom arm = 120
sandbags = 25
Muslin clamps = 18
2 super clamps = 54
Background rod hooks = 14
gray background = 70
Background cross bar = 20

The above list gives you three 640ws lights that can be controlled remotely, a light meter (part of the remote), C stands (much more stable than any light stand in the price range, and more space efficient), two softboxes (you'll find 70" to be overkill for most things), a beauty dish, a gray background, 4 sandbags, muslin clamps, a solid boom arm, and almost everything you need to hang a background (minus some 2x4s) for under $2500. That will leave you plenty of money to source barn doors and gels, umbrellas, grids, etc. as you figure out what you want. As you've seen, umbrellas can be had quite cheap. Same goes for barndoor and gel kits.

The super clamps and J hooks I listed can be used to mount a background rod onto a 2x4 run down the wall. I use 2x4s (spaced off the wall by a 16" long section of 2x4 mounted underneath) to mount my backgrounds. They take up way less space than stands and it's easier to stretch the background over them and clamp it in place.

I wouldn't recommend jumping on a chromakey background.

That all looks awesome! Thanks a lot! I really appreciate this.
But I have a few questions.

Will three lights be enough? If I were doing three point lighting, I wouldn't have any left to light the background. Would it be worth it to get a fourth light?

Also, I notice 4 C stands and only three lights. What am I missing?

And I can't hang anything on the wall. This is literally going to take place in a recording studio room. All the walls are covered with sound related things. This needs to be easy to take down and put in the closet, so I'd like to use a stand. I'm actually really into the idea of paper backdrops. That looks cheap and simple, with no clamping needed for a clean surface. What are the cons?

Yeah, I don't need a chromakey background. Looks way too complicated to use effectively.

You can use reflectors (foamcore or 5-in-1) instead of lights. That way you won't 'need' a fourth monobloc.

Clueless Novice wrote in post #17748174
That all looks awesome! Thanks a lot! I really appreciate this.
But I have a few questions.

Will three lights be enough? If I were doing three point lighting, I wouldn't have any left to light the background. Would it be worth it to get a fourth light?

Also, I notice 4 C stands and only three lights. What am I missing?

And I can't hang anything on the wall. This is literally going to take place in a recording studio room. All the walls are covered with sound related things. This needs to be easy to take down and put in the closet, so I'd like to use a stand. I'm actually really into the idea of paper backdrops. That looks cheap and simple, with no clamping needed for a clean surface. What are the cons?

Yeah, I don't need a chromakey background. Looks way too complicated to use effectively.

As Alveric pointed out, you'll need something to hold your reflectors. Three lights= One for background (unless you're going with a white seamless full body, then you'll need two on the background), one for key, one for hair or rim (if needed) and a reflector for fill. It's a lot easier to maintain a pleasing balance between key and fill by using reflectors instead of lights. If you want something that packs away easily then just go with a regular background stand "kit" (two tripods and a background crossbar). I personally don't care for them, but that's mainly because I have a very limited amount of space.

As you've set your heart on buying loads of lights, then no one will be able to convince you otherwise.

So buy them. But do yourself a favour and start with one for shooting. A first guitar lesson isn't best achieved whilst trying to sync with the rest of the band. It'd lead to mass confusion and a complete halt on any learning. You learnt chords first, then put the chords together into simple tunes, then more complicated tunes, then you added more musicians.

All lighting should start with the key light, learn how to use that and make the most if it before you add more.

I know there's a lot of 'great advice' regarding 3 point lighting etc. but there's only one sun. It's too easy to create something that looks completely unnatural.

Paul C Buff also has their LiteMod system (http://www.paulcbuff.c​om/litemod.php) for attaching snoots, barn doors and gels to your strobes.

The problem I've found with cheap background kits is they're extremely poor quality, not just the backdrop material but the stands and cross-bar.

Muslim is good if you want a painted background, but if you're doing solid colors you're better off IMHO with seamless paper. A wall-mounted roll paper bracket is the most stable but limits your flexibility. On the cheaper end I use collapsible Impact backgrounds (white/black and chroma green/blue) in our mobile kits and they get the job done, provided there's no bright light or high-contrast objects behind them.

I like having a light for the background because I can gel the light and turn a white or grey background any color I want.

The typical newbie error is buying too many lights. We have an excellent and active thread involving one studio light and it bears persusal. While reflectors, diffusers, stands and grip gear seem less sexy, these elements are core to studio photography. OP has a lot to learn, and front-loading all those lights is frankly ridiculous.

RicoTudor wrote in post #17749564
The typical newbie error is buying too many lights. We have an excellent and active thread involving one studio light and it bears persusal. While reflectors, diffusers, stands and grip gear seem less sexy, these elements are core to studio photography. OP has a lot to learn, and front-loading all those lights is frankly ridiculous.

I had given a lot of thought into justifying four lights, but then I looked at the thread you mentioned...
Kay, four lights is out. I'm saving the money. How about two, though? Then I can still experiment, but not spend anything totally unnecessary. Fair enough?

What would you say the essential modifiers are? Factoring in it'll normally range between one and five people and these are musician photos.