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Thread started 22 Oct 2015 (Thursday) 05:03
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Canon 400mm/F4 DO MkII vs Canon 500mm /F4 L....

 
PIXPHATIC
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Oct 22, 2015 05:03 |  #1

Hello All,
I wish to upgrade from the present Tamron 150-600mmSP Di VC to either the Canon 400mm/F4 DO MkII or Canon 500mm /F4 L......
If it were to be the 500mm,I'd be picking up an used one (if available) @ more or less same price point of that of a new 400mmDO MkII.
Either of the lenses would be used exclusively for birding with a 1.4 X TC under 'not-so-good' and whimsical lights of the Himalayas,mainly photographying small,elusive and fidgety birds.The present body would be Canon 70D.

While the 500mm is an established and famous lens, 400mm DO MkII is comparatively stranger to me. Gone through some threads on the lens however and keeping my fingers crossed.

Would like to hear from friends here and look forward to a discussion on the topic with possible pros and cons.

Meanwhile posting a recent shot from my favorite Tammy 150-600mm SP Di VC.

If any discussion on the same topic has appeared here (in this forum) or some place else, please provide a link.

Happy clicking.....

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Photography my religion,World my Tabernacle.
Canon 70D,Canon 500D(for macro & back-up),Tamron 150-600mm,Canon 100f2.8,Canon 50mmf1.8II(nifty-fifty),Canon 18-55 kit lens,Kenko 300 Pro DGX 1.4X C-AF TC,SLIK 700 Pro DX,Manfrotto 498 RC2,Lowepro Prorunner 350AW & 450 AW,Opteka 25mm C-AF Extension Tube........& obsession for photography..........

  
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clipper_from_oz
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Oct 22, 2015 09:10 |  #2

PIXPHATIC wrote in post #17755513 (external link)
Hello All,
I wish to upgrade from the present Tamron 150-600mmSP Di VC to either the Canon 400mm/F4 DO MkII or Canon 500mm /F4 L......
If it were to be the 500mm,I'd be picking up an used one (if available) @ more or less same price point of that of a new 400mmDO MkII.
Either of the lenses would be used exclusively for birding with a 1.4 X TC under 'not-so-good' and whimsical lights of the Himalayas,mainly photographying small,elusive and fidgety birds.The present body would be Canon 70D.

While the 500mm is an established and famous lens, 400mm DO MkII is comparatively stranger to me. Gone through some threads on the lens however and keeping my fingers crossed.

Would like to hear from friends here and look forward to a discussion on the topic with possible pros and cons.

Meanwhile posting a recent shot from my favorite Tammy 150-600mm SP Di VC.

If any discussion on the same topic has appeared here (in this forum) or some place else, please provide a link.

Happy clicking.....
Hosted photo: posted by PIXPHATIC in
./showthread.php?p=177​55513&i=i222873324
forum: Canon Lenses

nice shot!


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ejenner
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Oct 22, 2015 11:26 |  #3

I went though the same dilemma just recently and when I see used 500's for the same price I almost wonder if I made the right choice. Of course you do have a small risk buying such an expensive lens used, but I suspect if you do your homework it will be very small.

However, size and weight are both an issue for me - I need to be able to take the lens out on hikes and not feel like I might want to leave the big one at home. The DO is close in size to the sigma 150-600 I have and having used that for 6 months I know I can deal with that. Looking at the extra length and weight of the 500 was just not worth it for me.

That's what the DO is made for. If those factors are not an issue, or the 500 is not too big or heavy, then longer is better right? With the TC you are looking at 560mm vs 700mm, which is definitely a substantial difference.

The DO is my first 'big white', so I don't have much to compare to really. But those with other lenses in this category seem pleased with it.


Edward Jenner
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johnf3f
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Oct 22, 2015 17:57 |  #4

I shoot a lot of smaller birds and, for me, focal length is everything. However all our needs are different! I use the Canon 800mm F5.6 L IS and rate it VERY highly. Unfortunately it is not ideal without a tripod and Gimbal head so that adds up to a lot of weight. Perhaps the real question is how mobile do you need to be? Obviously the 400DO scores here but it is a 400mm F4/560mm F5.6 /800mm F8 (no AF on your 70D). The 500 F4 is heavier and more cumbersome but gives you 500 F4/700 F5.6/1000mm F8 (again no AF) + a tripod may be handy. The 600 and 800mm lenses can be a problem with Airlines I believe so they may not be suitable.
Probably the best thing to do is try and have a play (or hire) the lenses you are considering before you decide.

You mention that the light may be 'not-so-good'. Have you considered a different camera? The reason that I mention this is that something like a 7D2 has distinct AF advantages. If your budget allows then a 1DX has even better AF and much better high ISO performance. Both of these will allow AF at F8 making the Canon 2 x Mk3 extender an option when the light is good.
Just food for thought?


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Choderboy
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Oct 22, 2015 20:49 |  #5

Have you seen this review of the 400 DO II?
http://www.the-digital-picture.com ….0-DO-IS-II-USM-Lens.aspx (external link)


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umphotography
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Oct 22, 2015 21:49 |  #6

400DO is a great lens. I almost jumped on one. But I decided to get the 300F/2.8 instead. With a TC im at 420 and I cant see any difference in image quality. Im able to use the 300 for our wedding needs so thats why I went with the f/2.8 glass.

I typically shoot most of my wildlife work on the 7D2 so when using the 300 on it is a real advantage. with a TC im at 672 FOV so its working out great

I would not shy away from the 400DO. Great glass and for me the weight of the 500 is too restrictive


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CyberDyneSystems
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Post edited over 8 years ago by CyberDyneSystems.
     
Oct 22, 2015 21:59 |  #7

Are we comparing the DO II to the 500mm I or 500mm II?

Either way, the DO has one advantage, size and weight.
The 500mm has all the others :)

As a birder, I really like 500mm :)

when i limit myself to 400mm, I am more than happy with the much more affordable, and carry able 100-400mm MkII.

I have the older IS version, not the II. The Mark II reduces the weight a bit over the older model.


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WimDel
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Oct 23, 2015 01:38 |  #8

I went from the 500 II to the 400 DO II for reasons of size and weight. For me this lens is the best compromise you can make between reach and manageability. Optically they are the same, also with extenders. The DO makes a excellent 560mm and a great 800mm, although the AF on the last combo is not so usable for bif with the 7D2, but that was the same with the 500 II and the 2x. No regrets, the DO is an amazing lens. I have the 100-400 II also, but with the 1.4x it's no match for the DO.




  
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Joe52
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Oct 23, 2015 04:24 |  #9

A good review of the 400DO II here - http://arihazeghiphoto​graphy.com …ttle-of-the-light-lenses/ (external link)


My 500px (external link)

  
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PIXPHATIC
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Oct 23, 2015 08:49 |  #10

...............my apologies for not being able to communicate due to internet breakdown.Thanks every one for their contributions and the links.....:-)


from CyberDyneSystems...

Are we comparing the DO II to the 500mm I or 500mm II?

.......I missed it completely..should have mentioned,.. it is Canon 500mm/f4 L ISII.

.......to ejenner.....as far as the risk is concerned,it is limited as I know the person pretty well.I have acquired both my 70D and Tamron 150-600 form him. A perfect gentleman and knows how to keep the equipments.Recently he has bought both the 400mm DO and 100-400 MkII. Yes,apart from the weight of the 500mm compared to the 400mm DO,which might act as a deterrent,everything else is just 'too good' abt the 500mm.

.......as of now ,not willing to change the 70D.Maybe some years down the line might get a FF body,or a better and more capable APC sized body......both the IDX and 600mm/800mm are out of my limit.

......to WimDel....so do you mean 1.4 X TC on the 400mm DO is better than 100-400mm MkII..???
Also would you please enlighten us more on the fact that,if an image from 400mm DO is cropped to the extent so as to match a 500mm image.....how would you rate it as far as sharpness is concerned.Since both are f4 lenses,did you feel any real difference with the AF speed,esp in low light....wide open...??? I will not be using 2X TC in any case.Also please discuss the 'bokeh' issue....with the 400 DO MkII.How much good or 'so-so' is it..????

Other than the reduced 'reach' of the 400mm DO,also concerned about the AF speed...esp in low-light.

Thanks all again.


Photography my religion,World my Tabernacle.
Canon 70D,Canon 500D(for macro & back-up),Tamron 150-600mm,Canon 100f2.8,Canon 50mmf1.8II(nifty-fifty),Canon 18-55 kit lens,Kenko 300 Pro DGX 1.4X C-AF TC,SLIK 700 Pro DX,Manfrotto 498 RC2,Lowepro Prorunner 350AW & 450 AW,Opteka 25mm C-AF Extension Tube........& obsession for photography..........

  
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WimDel
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Oct 23, 2015 10:30 |  #11

I meant the DO with the 1.4x is way sharper than the 100-400 II with the 1.4x. The DO with the 1.4x is also sharper (and faster) than the 300 II +2x, that I also have had. The 500 II will obviously give slightly better image quality in comparison with the DO cropped to fov of the 500, but you'll have to pixelpeep to see it. I use these lenses mostly with the 1.4x, so can't comment much on performance of the lens 'naked'. Although I've used the DO naked once for swallows in flight and the AF was fast enough to track them well. I wouldn't worry to much on the AF of the DO, it's as good as it gets. With the 1.4x attached to both lenses, in my experience I would say the AF is on par. I have read about the weird bokeh but so far didn't experience odd things with it, imo it's not that different from the 500 II. I posted some pics with the DO in the lens sample forum and you can find more pics here (only 800px) http://www.pbase.com/w​imdel/bulgaria_2015 (external link)




  
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John ­ Sheehy
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Oct 23, 2015 11:31 |  #12

PIXPHATIC wrote in post #17757076 (external link)
Also would you please enlighten us more on the fact that,if an image from 400mm DO is cropped to the extent so as to match a 500mm image.....how would you rate it as far as sharpness is concerned.

Cropping will give you less pixels on subject, so in that way, it is always inferior, if you value natural texture. If pixel-level "sharpness" (the highest contrast possible between neighbor pixels) is your goal, the bare lens is limited only by the AA filter on the camera. The lens is far too sharp for the lens itself to be the limit to sharpness without a TC. I see almost no difference at the pixel level with the bare 400 DO II and with a Kenko Pro 300 1.4 DG TC on a 7D2 (DGX does not report properly with this lens - the DGX tricky magic gets it into trouble). On a 5Dsr, the lack of AA filter might allow more difference to show, but personally, I don't think I'd be happy with the aliasing with the bare lens on a 5Dsr on perfectly stable and focused shots. You may be less particular than me about natural texture, though.

I almost always use the 400 DO II with the 1.4x TC. When I need more magnification, I use the 2x if it does not lose too much AF speed (such as when it is dark, or you are shooting in deep branches or weeds where hunting is likely). Loss of AF prowess is the only reason I would choose cropping over TC use. I only take the TCs off completely when I need to "zoom out" (at which times I often wish I was using my Tamron 150-600 instead, or had a 100-400 II).

Going by the Kenko DG 1.4 and the Canon 2xIII on the 7D2, I would say that all three focal lengths (400/560/800) are very good at AF in open spaces with little depth confusion, and moderate light. That is center-point-only, of course at 800, and therefore almost useless for BIFs, even in great light. Make it a little darker, and/or choose a scenario with more depth confusion, though, and the TCs start to impede AF, the 2xIII failing first, of course. Even when the system is hunting-prone at 800mm, though, when it does lock on, it still focuses perfectly. I never find that when focus is achieved, that focus is not right, and that is with 0 MFA.




  
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John ­ Sheehy
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Oct 23, 2015 11:36 |  #13

WimDel wrote in post #17757198 (external link)
I have read about the weird bokeh but so far didn't experience odd things with it, imo it's not that different from the 500 II.

Before I bought the new 400 DO II, I had always assumed that the quality of bokeh of crossed branches or weeds at mixed depths behind the subject, and the rendering of OOF small points of light were different manifestations of the same phenomenon, but now I am not so sure. The DO II seems to be fine with the branches and weeds; not as good as a non-DO quality prime, but not horrible by any means. Individual points of light, however, can be a little weird, with dark centers or rings near the edges. Specular highlights on wet mud, or pinpoints of light making it through foliage can invoke the weirdness.




  
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PIXPHATIC
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Oct 23, 2015 11:38 as a reply to  @ WimDel's post |  #14

Thanks for those excellent pix.......& really helpful too since I too will be using either of the lenses with 1.4X TC on 95% of the time.
Those with 2X TC have also come out excellent.


Photography my religion,World my Tabernacle.
Canon 70D,Canon 500D(for macro & back-up),Tamron 150-600mm,Canon 100f2.8,Canon 50mmf1.8II(nifty-fifty),Canon 18-55 kit lens,Kenko 300 Pro DGX 1.4X C-AF TC,SLIK 700 Pro DX,Manfrotto 498 RC2,Lowepro Prorunner 350AW & 450 AW,Opteka 25mm C-AF Extension Tube........& obsession for photography..........

  
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PIXPHATIC
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Oct 24, 2015 06:20 |  #15

Thanks John Sheehy for helpful discussion on 400mmDO + TCs combo and the bokeh issue......:-)


Photography my religion,World my Tabernacle.
Canon 70D,Canon 500D(for macro & back-up),Tamron 150-600mm,Canon 100f2.8,Canon 50mmf1.8II(nifty-fifty),Canon 18-55 kit lens,Kenko 300 Pro DGX 1.4X C-AF TC,SLIK 700 Pro DX,Manfrotto 498 RC2,Lowepro Prorunner 350AW & 450 AW,Opteka 25mm C-AF Extension Tube........& obsession for photography..........

  
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