White backdrop lighting advice

Hey all,

Looking for some advice. I'm trying to easily white out a little studio for when we're indoors and we tend to do family photos every year on a bright white background. In the past, I just dealt with it more in post. I'd rather just nuke it white and not have to even think about it in post, less work. I have a massive white muslin that is non-reflective, cotton. Works great. I just did a few test runs with it and it's pretty white when exposed up. However, when slightly exposed down, the blue shadows start to appear in the folds. I want those just gone. My 2 year old doesn't allow for perfectly flat surfaces or anything.

I currently was trying to bounce a few lights to reflect. But I was finding it hard to get a good blend of over-exposing the white backdrop to make it all white, without also over-exposing the subjects.

So now I'm thinking, what if I just put two speedlites hitting the muslin white back drop directly. My 2 year old needs a break, so we're stopping for now. Will do some more later.

In the mean time, looking for advice on how you guys light a white backdrop and keep it very white without having to go back in post and deal with it very much.

I have lots of speedlites (YN560III's, 565EX's, several each) and prefer to use them indoors, my 600ws strobe is too much for indoor in general even at 1/128 power unless I heavily stop down my aperture, but then my poor speedlites don't have the muscle. I prefer to be able to shoot at low power, high ISO, moderately wide aperture for fast recycle times and lots of potential shots (again, dealing with a 2 year old commonly).

Example from today:

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/AAjB​N3

I have a couple of speedlights and 4 600/ws strobes. In the studio, if I need to keep my aperture opened up I'll put a good quality ND filter or Even a polarizer on to accommodate.

ThreeHounds wrote in post #17769546
I have a couple of speedlights and 4 600/ws strobes. If I need to keep my aperture opened up I'll put a good quality ND filter or Even a polarizer on to accommodate.

Heya,

Regardless of how you stop down the output of the strobe, you still effectively do the same to the speedlites and their output is no where near the strobe. So this isn't a viable option for me, as I have a lot of speedlites, and one powerful strobe. I tend to not use the strobe indoor. I use the speedlites.

So I'm just looking for ideal placement advice for the speedlites, to white out / nuke a white backdrop, without over-exposing the subject. Curious how others do it.

Very best,

Nice skin tones.
For me, a backdrop has to be well back, so that I can light it separately. Then I'll light the subject. See if your lights will allow you to do that.

I actually dont think that looks half bad as it is to be honest. Not sure if you are trying to basically blow out the background or what, but imo it looks pretty good.

PhotosGuy wrote in post #17769573
Nice skin tones.
For me, a backdrop has to be well back, so that I can light it separately. Then I'll light the subject. See if your lights will allow you to do that.

Good point, it would help to put the backdrop as far back as possible and bring the subjects forward.

My only constraint is space (inside, not a lot of room; used 35mm for the above on APS-C for a "normal" FOV) and the cooperation levels (read as: very, very low) of a 2 year old. I always consider the hardest subject like that to be the basis of all things, since the adults can go where I tell them and do what I tell them and stay put, while the 2 year old pretty much does what she pleases and melts down when she can't (like all do...).

So if I light the white backdrop separately and farther back, that still leaves my white foreground. I suppose it doesn't have to be pure white and since the backdrop will have higher exposure it won't show shadows. I'll try this out on the next go.

Very best,

Two ways to go. The first is create some space and use two lights so you get a good spread with no falloff across the drop.

But you have another option. Since you have a large modifier you can put her very close to the drop and set the light back a bit so there is minimal falloff . Using a large modifier keeps the shadows soft and limits the falloff problems that are exacerbated by a point light source. I have some examples but the changes to smugmug make it difficult to post from my tablet. If I can figure out the loss of function from their damned improvement I'll post. I know there is àn adorama video on YouTube that demonstrates the technique.

chugger93 wrote in post #17769584
I actually dont think that looks half bad as it is to be honest. Not sure if you are trying to basically blow out the background or what, but imo it looks pretty good.

Heya,

Yes, trying to white out the background completely. Nuking ambient light, nuking all color other than white, getting rid of wrinkles, folds, shadows, etc. Basically turning any room into a white studio space. We do a lot of family photos on white and do tight crops in general, except the wee children, then sometimes get full body (like the posted image above). Just trying to do the white better, and reduce any post work.

The only post work done above was I lowered exposure a touch in post as a RAW before exporting, and cropped. Nothing else. But I can see the blue shadow around her, so I know my key light was over-exposing compared to my backdrop lights since the shadow was made. I'm trying to eliminate that primarily. Just solid white background, gone, not in focus because it's not even there and over-exposed white. That's the goal anyways.

Very best,

gonzogolf wrote in post #17769588
Two ways to go. The first is create some space and use two lights so you get a good spread with no falloff across the drop.

But you have another option. Since you have a large modifier you can put her very close to the drop and set the light back a bit so there is minimal falloff . Using a large modifier keeps the shadows soft and limits the falloff problems that are exacerbated by a point light source. I have some examples but the changes to smugmug make it difficult to post from my tablet. If I can figure out the loss of function from their damned improvement I'll post. I know there is àn adorama video on YouTube that demonstrates the technique.

I'll try that too. I have 60" and 48" modifiers if needed. If I can't get a good separation, maybe I'll do a diffused strobe in the 48" octa and set it back a bit.

For now, I think I want to try two speedlites nuking the backdrop with some space between it and the subject space. And then use 2 more lights for the subject (key & fill). With adults and older kids I can use a hair light. With the 2 year old, there's zero point in trying to point a hair light ... sigh. If I can't get good enough separation, I'll try the close backdrop & large modifier approach.

Very best,

http://youtu.be/2I75Zw​KeA9MM

Watch this.

That was a very good watch. Thank you gonzo

chugger93 wrote in post #17769619
That was a very good watch. Thank you gonzo

You are welcome. For beauty or kid work its effective. The light is a bit flat, but Its a clean look and simple as can be.

gonzogolf wrote in post #17769607
http://youtu.be/2I75Zw​KeA9MM

Watch this.

Fantastic, that illustrates quite well the two methods.

I like the two light method I think. There's no way I can keep a 2 year old in one place. She gets close to the backdrop an immediately starts to drum on it and walk and fall into it thinking it's great fun.

Very best,

When I have to shoot white seamless, my go-to setup for this is to use a couple of white bi-fold doors (substitute v-flats here or similar) with strobes lighting into the V of the doors. This accomplishes two things: 1) it makes the light source much larger, giving me fairly even illumination across the backdrop, and 2) it blocks the light from directly hitting the subject (as long as the subject doesn't stand right up against the backdrop). Another advantage is that you can get a bit of a rim light without introducing much flare by adding more light to the v-flats. Then add whatever modifier you want for the key light on the subject.

Hope this helps.

MalVeauX wrote in post #17769629
Fantastic, that illustrates quite well the two methods.

I like the two light method I think. There's no way I can keep a 2 year old in one place. She gets close to the backdrop an immediately starts to drum on it and walk and fall into it thinking it's great fun.

Very best,

You are actually arguing for the one light method. She can move around without interference from background lights or stands and the large single light covers the width of the drop nicely. I used that method to shoot dancers (not ballet) and the attention span was roughly the same.