Godox TTL AD360II and X1

Here is a good example of how I use this system....canon 6d, 70-200 F4IS, godox 180 camera left..shoot thru umbrella...on camera flash , canon 430ex...bounced and in ttl mode...-2 stop compensation.

Here is how I use hss off camera flash even in pretty good lighting to create some "pop" One Yongnuo 600rt on a stand, camera left...controlled by Yongnuo ex rt trigger on canon 6d

When will the new version of ft16s receiver be released? So that I can control the power level of my first version AD360 and V860 from thr X1.

echelonphoto wrote in post #17790065
I would be happy with the x1 if I could use it in ttl and still have my on camera flash (on x1 hot shoe) also function in ttl.

There are a lot of people who have wished to be able to do something like this but Canon camera's cannot handle two TTL devices communicating through the hot shoe, either stacked or when used with a dual "off shoe" TTL cord. This is a limitation of the camera and has nothing to do with the devices attached to the hot shoe. Very simply the Canon ETTL system get's confused when trying to communicate with more than one ETTL device. When using a dual "off shoe" TTL cord you can use one device in TTL while using the other in Manual mode but not both in TTL. I also have used the Strato II radio trigger, which is a non TTL dumb trigger that has a TTL pass through hot shoe, very successfully to integrate a TTL "on camera" flash or TTL radio trigger with non TTL radio controlled Manual flashes. In this setup there still can only be one TTL device. Since Yongnuo has released their YNE3-RX receiver I no longer need the Strato II to integrate two different systems.

My suggestion is to skip the X1 (or any radio trigger for that matter) and proceed directly to an "on camera" flash with a radio transmitter built in and trigger your "off camera" flashes with it. Something like the Canon Wireless RT system with the new YNE3-RX or Laso receivers would work when controlled by an "on camera" Canon or Yongnuo 600EX-RT as a Master. If you are interested in this new Godox 2.4G Wireless radio system, use the TT685 shoe flash "on camera" as the transmitter to control an X1 receiver or if you want to splurge replace your AD180 with the new AD360II and have TTL wireless control.

Today I have been testing both the TT685 as well as the X1 and its hot shoe. I will post my findings tomorrow as I am still trying to sort through some inconsistency issues, but what else is new. There is nothing in the manual about using the X1's hot shoe so this has been trial and error learning with emphasis on the "error". I have learned more about what it can't do rather than with what it can do. I will say this though, the X1 hot shoe does not work in the way that I think most people are envisioning it working.

Edit: I was typing when you made your last two posts. Really nice images, I like the depth of field in the first image.

Since you already have the Yongnuo YN-E3-RT and Yongnuo YN600EX-RT all you would need to do is add a couple of YNE3-RX receivers. One for your 430EX and one for the AD 180. You could use the Yongnuo YN600EX-RT for your "on camera" flash instead of the 430EX when those situations arise. You would have several different lighting scenarios with this setup: an "on camera" flash and two "off camera" flashes or the YN-E3-RT "on camera" and 3 "off camera" flashes.

nixland wrote in post #17790168
When will the new version of ft16s receiver be released? So that I can control the power level of my first version AD360 and V860 from thr X1.

I have only heard rumors of Godox building some sort of receiver to integrate the new 2.4G radio system with the old 433MHz Manual only flashes. Is there any announcements I have missed as I have not really been paying too much attention? For your V860 you would be better off using the X1 receiver to where you will have full TTL control as any receiver to convert from the 2.4G radio system to the 433MHz flashes will no doubt be manual flash settings and triggering information only. As far as integrating the old 433MHz Manual flashes to work with the new 2.4G radio system right now is as simple as one FT-16 transmitter attached to an X1 receiver. If they do develop such a receiver then cost will determine if people want to spend the money to outfit each individual flash or just go with the 1 FT-16 transmitter and 1 X1 receiver.

What I would like to see is Godox build a 600WS TTL/HSS battery powered flash to work with the new 2.4G radio system.

Yes, attacing the FT16 tx on X1 receiver is the only solution right now. But still hope Godox will release the ft16s x1 receiver. Its more practical, tiny and does not need battery.

agv8or wrote in post #17790264
I have only heard rumors of Godox building some sort of receiver to integrate the new 2.4G radio system with the old 433MHz Manual only flashes. Is there any announcements I have missed as I have not really been paying too much attention?

The 2.4GHz receivers have not been officially announced, though they are coming. Hopefully next month.

Your wish for a new strobe may just be granted, though that may be a while away yet.

Did you get to try the Laso receiver with the AD360 II-C yet by any chance?

nixland wrote in post #17790453
Yes, attacing the FT16 tx on X1 receiver is the only solution right now. But still hope Godox will release the ft16s x1 receiver. Its more practical, tiny and does not need battery.

Just tested this and worked out great.

Thanks for clearing that up....it is disappointing. I cannot use the 600 rt's on camera because of weight...just too large and bulky...my 430ex is already on the large side...now I might consider the Nissin i 40...which has plenty of pop and is very easily adjustable in manual mode....I use it on my Fuji xt1 and its quite adequate since i am still using off camera flash with it also. Maybe I will buy an additional Yongnuo 600rt and gang two together on my stand for more power...I can still use the godox battery to power them. The other option is the one manny suggested...using the Yongnuo 622C, which he claims can do what I want.

echelonphoto wrote in post #17790629
Thanks for clearing that up....it is disappointing. I cannot use the 600 rt's on camera because of weight...just too large and bulky...my 430ex is already on the large side...now I might consider the Nissin i 40...which has plenty of pop and is very easily adjustable in manual mode....I use it on my Fuji xt1 and its quite adequate since i am still using off camera flash with it also. Maybe I will buy an additional Yongnuo 600rt and gang two together on my stand for more power...I can still use the godox battery to power them. The other option is the one manny suggested...using the Yongnuo 622C, which he claims can do what I want.

The only way it would be possible for both the "on camera" TTL transmitter and an "on camera" flash, in the transmitter hot shoe, to operate in TTL is if the TTL transmitter is controlling the "on camera" flash. Like I said only one TTL device can communicate with the camera. This is something that I have been testing with the X1 and I will post my findings later tonight. I will say that if you think having a 600EX-RT is too large to have as an "on camera" flash just put your 430EX in a transmitter hot shoe, with both mounted "on camera". You might look at the new 430EX III RT, which has Master capability in Wireless RT, and use Wireless RT receivers (like I previously mentioned) to control or trigger your "off camera" flashes.

elv wrote in post #17790510
The 2.4GHz receivers have not been officially announced, though they are coming. Hopefully next month.

Your wish for a new strobe may just be granted, though that may be a while away yet.

Did you get to try the Laso receiver with the AD360 II-C yet by any chance?

Yes I did but I still have some more testing as I did have some issues. I talked about it back in post #30. Here is my quote from that post.

"So I tested the Laso receiver with both a Yongnuo YN-E3-RT and YN600EX-RT as Master transmitters but could not get them to even link with the Laso receiver. I then tested the Laso rx with both a Canon ST-E3-RT and 600EX-RT as Master transmitters and it would work with my first AD 360II but not with the one I received today. I switched between both a 5DmII and 5DmIII but could not get the second AD 360II to fire. In my numerous switching back and forth I accidentally left the second AD 360II in the Godox Wireless Radio Slave configuration as I was also testing it with my X1 transmitter. All of a sudden the second AD 360II started working. When I noticed my mistake I switched it back to the non Wireless configuration and the ETTL mode, and it continued working, GO figure!So with this new revelation I tested both my AD 360II's and they will both work in either the non Wireless configuration ETT mode or in the Godox Wireless Radio Slave configuration but only when the mode is set to ETTL. If this sounds confusing, trust me when I say that my testing today of flashes, transmitters and receivers has been very confusing with things working and then not working, or not working and then working. As I last left it, both my AD 360II's were working in the Canon Wireless RT system when using a Phottix Laso receiver and either a Canon ST-E3-RT or 600EX-RT as a Master transmitter.

Now the bizarre! So with my luck now on the positive side I thought I would try the Yongnuo YN-E3-RT as a Master transmitter again, and lo and behold it worked but I noticed that the link light was yellow and not green so it was the second RT transmitter. Sure as heck my 5DmIII with an ST-E3-RT transmitter was sitting on the floor and the ST-E3-RT was on and still linked to the Laso receiver. I turned the ST-E3-RT off and the YN-E3-RT stayed linked to the Laso rx and the link light turned green and yeah it still fired the AD 360II. So I turned off the YN-E3-RT and turned it back on but it would not link with the Laso rx unless I first turned on the ST-E3-RT and linked it first. I tested the Yn600EX-RT as a Master and this too was the same situation to where it would only link through the ST-E3-RT. So if I want to use a Yongnuo YN-E3-RT or YN600EX-RT as Master transmitters I will have to jump start them with a Canon RT transmitter. Again GO figure!"

The X1-C transmitter and it's hot shoe.

So the past couple of days I have been doing a little testing of the hot shoe on the X1 transmitter. I am still having some inconsistencies as well as some really bizarre issues, plus I was unable to test the Godox TT850 because all my batteries were junk so further testing is required. I will update this post as I gain more experience in using the X1's hot shoe.

Tested the following equipment on the X1 hot shoe so far: Yongnuo YN 600EX-RT and YN-E3-RT, Canon 600EX-RT and ST-E3-RT, Mitros+, and Godox TT685. Will test the TT850, manual only flash, when the new batteries arrive. Gotta love those $33, model specific Li ion batteries. Thankfully Godox dumped that idea and went back to using AA batteries with the TT685.

First off there is no information that I can find on using the X1 hot shoe so I was going in blind with no idea of what to expect. I quickly learned that the hot shoe on the X1 is not a "TTL passthrough" hot shoe like that on the Phottix Strato II. Of course the Strato II is not a TTL radio trigger like the X1 so it would stand to reason that there would be a difference. Since Canon's ETTL system can only deal with one ETTL device at a time, I was doubtful that I would be able to do with the TTL X1, what I have been able to do with the non TTL Phottix Strato II. If you have experience with the Strato II or another non TTL radio trigger with a "TTL passthrough" hot shoe then you will be disappointed to find that the use of the X1 hot shoe is very limited in what you can do.

If you'll remember I mentioned in a previous post about the X1 automatically controlling the HSS feature of Slave flashes, and automatically switching to HSS when the camera's shutter speed is set higher than the cameras max sync. When a Canon compatible TTL flash is placed in the X1 hot shoe, it automatically takes control of the flash through the TTL communication pins. It puts that flash in Group A of the X1 Wireless system regardless of any settings in the flash itself (the exception being the TT685). Whatever wireless flash mode, that is set for Slave group A in the X1 transmitter, is also set in the ONC (on camera) flash no matter what wireless configuration the flash is set to. I will give that a little time to sink in and for you to reread that a few times. Now each flash is different as to what wireless configurations can be set and this is where things have gotten bizarre. I will explain my findings for each flash, just be forewarned if you thought, you could put a TTL flash in the hot shoe, and control it from it's own menu, while you controlled OFC (off camera) flashes with the X1 transmitter, you would be wrong. Like I already said but it bears repeating, the X1 hot shoe is not "TTL passthrough" so any TTL flash in the hot shoe is going to be controlled by the X1 transmitter. The exception would be a manual only flash with no TTL pins. I could not test my TT850 as I previously stated but I did test the YN-E3-RT in the "Legacy" mode which disables the TTL pins except for the large trigger pin. I was able to get it to control and fire OFC flashes using the RT system but I had some inconsistencies so I need to test further.

When using the Canon 600EX-RT or YN600EX-RT you have the ability to switch between the "Wireless OFF" and the "Wireless Master RT" configurations (just a note here: I do not deal with any "Optical Wireless" configurations, ever. Although these flashes are capable of "Wireless Optical" I only deal in RT so, "NO" I did not and "NO" I am not going to conduct any tests in the "Wireless Optical" configurations). To continue.... Trying to set any other Wireless configuration will result in the X1 switching the flash back to the "Wireless OFF" configuration. Now personally I had previously envisioned only being able to use the flash in the "Wireless OFF" configuration, in the ETTL mode as this is the setup for most TTL radio triggers. Well as I mentioned the X1 is proving to be a very different radio trigger in that it takes complete control of any flash in it's hot shoe. This applies to both the X1 transmitter or receiver hot shoes. Unlike other TTL radio triggers that need the Canon compatible TTL flash to be in the "Wireless OFF" configuration, ETTL mode the X1 doesn't seem to care, it just does what it want or what it needs so if it is not in that configuration, it will be as soon as the X1 is turned on. The exception being the "Wireless Master RT" configuration which it does allow. More on that to follow but first a bit of digression and repetition.

As mentioned most TTL radio triggers require the Canon compatible TTL flash to be in "Wireless OFF" configuration, ETTL mode to work with their system and it is never displayed on the flash itself, the mode or flash power that is set in the transmitter (there may be some exceptions I am unaware of). The X1 takes control of the flash and if it is set to TTL then the flash goes into TTL. If the X1 is set to Manual mode then the flash goes into Manual mode and the flash output, set in the X1, is displayed on the flash. As I previously mentioned, HSS is automatically set in the flash right from the start so it is ready to switch as soon as the shutter speed exceeds max sync. When I first figured this out I thought it was a great idea but I have since thought of a lot of situations that I would not like this type of an automatic feature. I have been known to accidently make changes to shutter speeds and the last thing I would want is to loose about 2 stops of flash power by accidentally changing from 1/200 to 1/250. I accidently changed the FEC in the camera one time while I was changing the ISO setting (I never use the FEC in the camera...never, never, never) . I accidentally dialed in about -1 FEC and it took me about 5 minutes to figure that one out (flash exposure under exposed by 1 stop so I dialed in +1 FEC into the flash now flash over exposing by 1 stop...it messes with your mind). I kind of think I would rather have control of choosing when to turn HSS ON or OFF. It is a feature of the X1 system so I guess one has to live with and be aware of it.

Back to regular programming. In the "Wireless OFF" configuration (in reality this is the way you should use this setup) the X1 controls all Wireless Modes, Manual flash power adjustments and FEC adjustments, in the flash in the hot shoe, as part of the X1's Group A. NO ADJUSTMENTS ARE MADE, NOR CAN THEY MADE, IN THE FLASH ITSELF. This means that the hot shoe is not a "TTL Passthrough" hot shoe in the true sense of the word. The X1 does all the communicating with the camera and tells the flash what to do. The flash in the hot shoe cannot communicate with the camera which it could if this were truly a "TTL Passthrough" hot shoe. This makes sense, since this is a TTL radio trigger and it's TTL communication, with the camera, takes precedent over any ONC flash. Remember that the Canon ETTL system cannot communicate with two separate ETTL devices. This is evident when you switch the flash to the "Wireless Master RT" configuration. When the flash is in this configuration ETTL does not work in the flash itself nor in any of the Slave flashes being controlled by the flash as a Master. LOL I just heard necks snap and eyelids pop open.

Yes you heard me right and this is what has been driving me crazy, and taking so long in testing and retesting, but before you start thinking of all the creative lighting setups you are going to do with this type of dual Master arrangement be warned. I have spent hours testing all these new, bizarre behaviors to where I am confused, tired and plain ole befuddled. I do not have the patience or the space to write down all that I have found that I can do or can't do when the flash is in the "Wireless Master RT" configuration. If this is something you might be interested in then buy some X1's and experiment with it but I am done. I never planned to ever use the X1 transmitters hot shoe in the first place but it intrigued me after reading this article from Lighting rumors where they mentioned that it had a "TTL Passthrough" hot shoe. http://www.lightingrum​ours.com/godox-x1-c-7462 I did not see how that would be possible with a TTL radio trigger and come to find out, in my way of thinking of the definition of "Passthrough", and in my experience of using a radio trigger with a true "TTL Passthrough" hot shoe, the X1 is not, nor could it be.

IN SUMMARY:

The hot shoe on the X1 is a doable solution for an ONC flash but, with a flash as big as the 600EX's there is a whole lot of swaying going on to where I would be afraid that any sudden movements would snap the foot right off the X1. This is the weak link in the whole deal not to mention this type of arrangement, even with a smaller flash or another radio trigger in the hot shoe, is bulky. I will still choose the Canon RT system, using RT receivers and RT flashes, long before going back to integrating two systems by using a transmitter, stacked with a flash in the camera's hot shoe. I went this route for a while with the Strato II and the Canon Wireless RT 600EX-RT or ST-E3-RT in the Strato II hot shoe and although it accomplished what I was trying to do, it sucked. There is something to be said for simplistic and minimal solutions.

As far as the X1-C is concerned, the more I use it, the more I like it. It had a few issues which I was able to fix to where it is now reliable and works. If I was in the market for a cheap TTL radio trigger, I would definitely buy the X1-C, long before buying a Yongnuo YN622c or most other cheaper TTL radio triggers for that matter. After comparing the X1-C side by side with the Phottix Odin it is easier to use and a whole bunch cheaper. If the X1-C has good range, I yet to find the time to test that, then it will definitely be a keeper.

this is getting interesting....so I may be able to control my on camera flash ttl thru the x1 menu ( how about the camera flash menu?) This could be promising for my needs. I would buy the 430ex III as a master controller if it could control the godox 360II...but I don't think that will happen soon. Wouldn't it be great if every "pro" camera had a built in wireless ttl transmitter set to a consistent standard so they would work with many different flashes also set to the same standard?

echelonphoto wrote in post #17791594
this is getting interesting....so I may be able to control my on camera flash ttl thru the x1 menu ( how about the camera flash menu?) This could be promising for my needs. I would buy the 430ex III as a master controller if it could control the godox 360II...but I don't think that will happen soon. Wouldn't it be great if every "pro" camera had a built in wireless ttl transmitter set to a consistent standard so they would work with many different flashes also set to the same standard?

You can control the AD 360IIc with the 430EX III RT by using a Phottix Laso receiver. I have not had any luck in using the Yongnuo YNE3-RX receiver though, even though you would think that both are Wireless RT receivers and should function the same. In fact I have found that the Yongnuo Master transmitters (YN600 and YN-E3-RT) do not play nice with the Laso receiver as well. All this reverse engineering, to work with the Canon Wireless RT system, doesn't always equate to successfully working with another manufacturer who is doing their own reverse engineering.

"(how about the camera flash menu?)" It is very time consuming just to test all the different devices I am testing now, so I doubt very seriously, that I will go back and do it all again by using the cameras flash menu. I will leave that up to someone else's endeavor, if they should have need of such knowledge. Now if someone has something very specific they want me to test, with the equipment I own, I will do my best to do so.

The testing I am doing is by no means done professionally, or for any kind of official product review, blog post or manufacturers endorsement. It's not even done in a professional or organized manner( I will leave that up to Flash Havoc and others), but rather for my own personal knowledge in determining what products work best for me. The information I provide may be inaccurate, incomplete or just plain innocuous that nobody really cares about but me. I am more than willing to offer my opinion whether anyone asks for it or not.

Edit:

When you say "how about the camera flash menu?" in a generic sense, it's hard to give a definitive answer because it is not a specific question. Every camera does not have the same "Flash Menu" system, capable of controlling the same feature's or function's of every flash or Wireless system. Most older DSLR's, like the 5D classic, did not even have a "Flash Menu" per say, as any limited flash control was in either the main menu or the custom functions. The 5DmII "Flash Menu" is completely different from the "Flash Menu" in the 5DmIII. The 5DmII was manufactured before the Canon Wireless RT system so it's flash menu reflects this, it does not have any features in regards to the Wireless RT system, that the 5DmIII has. The Godox X1-C is designed to where it recognizes this difference because just like most of the Wireless RT compatible flashes and radio triggers to come on the market as of late, the Yongnuo YN-E3-RT and YN600EX-RT being the exceptions, will not work in the Wireless mode with the older DSLR's just like the Canon 600EX-RT and ST-E3-RT. The 5DmII cannot control the Wireless RT system transmitters it can only control an ONC 580EX II and 430EX II but not the original 580EX and 430EX. When you turn the Wireless Optical system OFF, in the Personal Preferences, in the 600EX-RT the 5DmII menu reflects this and greys out the "Wireless set" in it's "flash Menu".

I do not have a 6D or Fuji camera so I could not give you an answer to any question, that would specifically relate to them functioning with the X1-C. The closest I could come would be with using the "Flash Menu" system of the 5DmIII with the X1-C. I am not going to explain the 5DmIII "Flash Menu" and how it functions with the 600EX-RT or ST-E3-RT as that information can be found in the 5DmIII manual. Nor am I going to point out the differences when using the X1-C but just remember the X1-C, as I have previously mentioned numerous times, takes control of a camera and a Slave flash in ways I have never seen before. Some of things it does and why it does it I cannot explain I can only report the facts as I know them. Yes the X1-C can be controlled from the 5DmIII "Flash Menu" but in a completely different manner than one is accustomed to.

First off I have to preface this by saying, for the life of me I cannot figure out why anyone would want to use the camera's "Flash Menu" over just making the adjustments directly in the Flash or Transmitter. With the 5DmIII by the time you hit the "menu" button then select "External Speedlite control" (even if it is already highlighted from previous use or you have saved it in your favorites menu you still have to select it), then scroll down to and select "Flash function settings", then scroll over to the different Groups and select them, then scroll down to the Group you want to adjust and select it, then scroll down to the adjustment and select it, then make the adjustment, hit select to lock it in...now if you want to adjust another group or to see an overview of all your Group settings, you have to back out by pressing the Menu button and then reselect another Group, backing out each time and repeating the same process. Once you press the shutter button you now have to start the whole process over again if you want to make any more adjustments. Holy cow that is a lot of work for nothing but that is just my opinion. I used to use the Flash Menu on the 5DmII with the 580EX II just because the 580EX II's flash menu was not as easy to navigate as was the cameras Flash Menu. The 5DmIII on the other hand is a nightmare and too time consuming to navigate through especially considering how easy and quick it is to navigate the 600EX or ST-E3 menus, or the X1 for that matter. Just my humble opinion.

So here is what I found when using the X1-C with the 5DmIII "Flash Menu": When you turn ON the 5DmIII and X1-C, and go to the "Flash Menu" (Flash function settings) you will notice that the camera recognizes the X1-C as a Wireless Optical Master. If you try to turn Wireless Off the X1 keeps going back to Wireless Optical. It will also not let you change the sync back to first curtain sync as I previously stated it automatically puts the camera and any Slaves in HSS. Also any changes to any Slave power settings are not recognized in the X1 when the Wireless Optical configuration is selected. So OK no big deal just switch to Radio Wireless, this works but the X1 goes right to the wireless <Gr> mode. If you try to use the cameras "Flash Menu" to change out of the <Gr> mode you can't. You have to change out using the X1 menu but when you do so and try to choose ETTL, Manual or Multi as the Wireless mode, then the camera goes right back to Wireless Optical.

So conclusion is that the X1 only works with the 5DmIII's "Flash Menu" in the wireless <Gr> mode...OK so again no big deal because for me that is the only Wireless mode I use any way. You can change each individual Group from "OFF" to "ETTL and to "Manual" modes using the cameras "Flash Menu". You can make changes to Individual Group FEC and Manual power settings but you cannot make Global FEC changes from the "Flash Menu". You can only make Global FEC changes from the X1 menu. The problem is that you can make that change and it will only be reflected in the X1 menu, but not displayed in the cameras Flash Menu. So the next issue arises if you make another change to a single Group FEC, using the "Flash Menu", you lose the global FEC set in the X1 menu for that individual Group and the new FEC, set in the "Flash Menu", is now reflected in both menus. If that sounds confusing then just wait till you start trying to using it in a practical manner. To be honest though I hardly ever use global FEC and with the mode I cannot remember if I ever have. What I like most about the mode is the individual way that each group is represented so this issue for me would be a non issue but then again I never use the cameras "Flash Menu" as it easier to just use the menu on the Flash or transmitter as I previously stated. One more thing to point out is that the X1 only displays 3 groups at a time in its window so you could be making an adjustment to a group that is not displayed in the X1 window but the adjustment is being made.

Thanks for all your hard work...see you are getting frustrated. Just one question...if the x1 can control the on camera flash and off camera flash via its menu...how easy is it to adjust each group on the fly