GN vs WS comparison

Hi All,

Studio strobe questions:

1. How do I compare output power between speedlights and strobes? I currently only have speedlights but am looking into strobes. I shoot mainly weddings but would like some strobes for the my portrait clients. But I am also considering a strobe instead of my multiple speedlights. Currently I gang up 3 yn568ii flashes to get a total gn of about 100. How can I translate that into ws from strobes so I know more what I am getting into?

2. Levels of equipment: So I am understanding that alienbees are basically beginner strobes and einsteins are a step up with profoto b1 series being high end. I know there is a bunch inbetween. Are the cowboy studio or calument strobes (and the the like) pretty much junk? Like most, I am looking for the most bang for my buck as I won't be using them all the time.

Thanks!

NewCreation wrote in post #17787555
Hi All,

Studio strobe questions:

1. How do I compare output power between speedlights and strobes? I currently only have speedlights but am looking into strobes. I shoot mainly weddings but would like some strobes for the my portrait clients. But I am also considering a strobe instead of my multiple speedlights. Currently I gang up 3 yn568ii flashes to get a total gn of about 100. How can I translate that into ws from strobes so I know more what I am getting into?

2. Levels of equipment: So I am understanding that alienbees are basically beginner strobes and einsteins are a step up with profoto b1 series being high end. I know there is a bunch inbetween. Are the cowboy studio or calument strobes (and the the like) pretty much junk? Like most, I am looking for the most bang for my buck as I won't be using them all the time.

Thanks!

Hi, For #1 - You really cannot directly compare the two parameters. WS relate to the power available going into the flash-tube. GN relate to what is released through a Speedlite's fresnel lens. However, you can ask the question; 'when each type is buried within a 2 diffusion layer softbox, how many Speedlites does it take to match a Strobe of so many WS?'. (Remember Strobes vary in the efficiency of how well they turn the available WS into light emitted.)
An answer, comparing my Jinbei HD600 strobe (600 WS) is - c7 X 580ExIIs Speedlites (GN 58 m @ 105).
HTH.

Yes, guide numbers are based on both power and the effect of the focusing lens on the flash so a flash will have different GNs at different distances. So not really comparable to a strobe,

Yes cowboy and similar are mostly junk. If you are truly budget limited the adorama flashpoint strobes have a decent range although the cheapest ones there not so great. The calumet genesis line was good but I dont think they are available any longer. If you want a decent option look for used white lighting strobes from paul buff. They are a step up from alien bees but often get overlooked used.

How do you envision using them? There are new options like the rovelight but they may not offer you any advantage depending on your application.

OceanRipple* wrote in post #17787681
Hi, For #1 - You really cannot directly compare the two parameters. WS relate to the power available going into the flash-tube. GN relate to what is released through a Speedlite's fresnel lens. However, you can ask the question; 'when each type is buried within a 2 diffusion layer softbox, how many Speedlites does it take to match a Strobe of so many WS?'. (Remember Strobes vary in the efficiency of how well they turn the available WS into light emitted.)
An answer, comparing my Jinbei HD600 strobe (600 WS) is - c7 X 580ExIIs Speedlites (GN 58 m @ 105).
HTH.

Yes, this does help. Thanks! I realize that I am not comparing apples to apples but I don't know anything about strobes and their power so I just jumped in with my dumb question to start to figure it out.

gonzogolf wrote in post #17787710
Yes, guide numbers are based on both power and the effect of the focusing lens on the flash so a flash will have different GNs at different distances. So not really comparable to a strobe,

Yes cowboy and similar are mostly junk. If you are truly budget limited the adorama flashpoint strobes have a decent range although the cheapest ones there not so great. The calumet genesis line was good but I dont think they are available any longer. If you want a decent option look for used white lighting strobes from paul buff. They are a step up from alien bees but often get overlooked used.

How do you envision using them? There are new options like the rovelight but they may not offer you any advantage depending on your application.

Thanks, I kinda figured about the cowboys being junk. I do light cheap but functional but I don't' want it to be a pain or a waste of money. I go with the yongnuo flashes because if I break one during the course of a wedding, I don't really care. I will just buy another.

I will look around at the white lightning option.

I have looked at the rovelight and actually considered it. It would be nice to not have 3-4 speedlights + triggers so there is less points of failure but I am concerned about weight.

I guess I am not certain on how I will use them. I want to have a studio set up so I don't have to use speedlights for that but if it's portable that I can use for weddings, too, then I can put that into consideration.

I'm not a strobe pro, so take my suggestion as one from someone with very limited real time use...

But the balance between light output and weight/portability, and perhaps even flexibility of working with your existing triggers etc, you may be in the market for what I just invested in.

http://www.adorama.com …02&cvosrc=affil​iate.68302

that unit is the Adorama branded Godox Witstro 360 which can be found under a number of brands, but they are all the same unit. It has a bit of a following here on the forum;
https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1270039

If you are mainly working inside then the sync speed cheat systems in the newer light might not be a factor for you. If thats the case there is no reason that alien bees, white lightnings or any other solid monolight won't work for you.

Thanks. I will look into it.

I guess I need to decide if they will be relegated to indoors or if I want the option for on-location session.

NewCreation wrote in post #17787907
I guess I need to decide if they will be relegated to indoors or if I want the option for on-location session.

They dont have to be relagated to indoor use. Its more of a case if you are shooting outside and higher sync speed hacks are your bread and butter then some of the new toys are useful. But a 3 stop nd filter fixes a lot of that.

I read a couple of articles some time ago that were selling formulas for converting Ws to GN. And even after their sales pitch they concluded a very large margin for error. So I believe others here are right. There is no real way to compare advertised GN to advertised Ws. May I suggest you rent some studio strobes and set them up like you set up your speed lights. Then see what your light meter tells you. Also keep in mind that different reflectors on the same strobe will yield different results.

And for what it's worth I have two AB800s and an AB400. No complaints. In my opinion Paul Buff has the best bang for the buck.

I do like my hss

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NewCreation wrote in post #17787555
1. How do I compare output power between speedlights and strobes?

Honestly, in the same modifier with a light meter. Not a comparison you can do with spec sheets of course, and not what you wanted to hear. But what everyone says above is all true: Watt-seconds (when accurately reported) is the amount of electrical energy discharged through the flash tube, and how much of that ends up as usable light depends on many things, especially the modifier (dish, reflector, Fresnel lens, softbox, etc).

NewCreation wrote in post #17787555
2. Levels of equipment: So I am understanding that alienbees are basically beginner strobes and einsteins are a step up with profoto b1 series being high end. I know there is a bunch inbetween. Are the cowboy studio or calument strobes (and the the like) pretty much junk?

I wouldn't say "junk", more like light duty and less predictable. Lots of people without thousands to spend on gear make do with equipment that doesn't meet the color and exposure consistency requirements from flash to flash that the most demanding professionals expect from their gear when working with teams of people (models, MUAs, stylists, grips, producers) who are on the clock. Since you're doing this professionally, you should be looking a couple of steps up from the $60 Cowboy Studio strobes. You know this already They're not junk per se, I could shoot eBay product shots with them, but they are not right for your business of shooting once-in-a-lifetime events for paying clients. Personally, I put Yongnuo in this category too; they offer excellent value for enthusiasts, but probably not the top choice if photography is your livelihood.

I wouldn't throw AlienBees in with the overseas import cheap strobes. Paul C Buff stuff is all well made and reliable. I think they are at least as good as the lower-end Elinchrom stuff (their made in India/China stuff, not the Swiss made flagship products). They are in the USA, and customer service is great too.

Profoto, Broncolor, Hensel, high-end Elinchrom, etc.. you will find in big commercial studios and on high-budget shoots. Top notch European-made stuff, very expensive, but possibly worth it if it's in your budget.

I guess I just need to learn what the ws numbers mean.

How do you use the different powered alienbees?

NewCreation wrote in post #17787983
How do you use the different powered alienbees?

They all work the same, you just use more powerful ones when you need more light (outdoors in the sun, larger modifiers, larger subjects, etc.). They all have the same form factor and take the same modifiers.

The alienbees and einsteins are normally AC powered, but can be used on location with the Vagabond power packs (which are batteries + power inverter). The smaller, newer Vagabond is the better choice for bang for the buck and flexibility of placement, the only advantage of the larger one being the fastest recycle times with a single strobe.