hair selection problem

My masking skills suck, so I've been diligently trying to improve them.
Can anyone tell me why my mask is creates lighter colored hair (the flyaway hair)?
Thanks

I think what is happening is that the hairs are darker than the original background, so they then seem darker. On the green background they are a lighter tone than the background, so you see them as being lighter. I would actually think that they are very close to being a midtone. If you were to look at the RGB values of the hair in each version I expect that they will be the same. You can get some very odd effects when you have midtones against a brighter/darker background.

Alan

Thanks for the input Alan. I was thinking the same thing, but can't really get an RGB sample that small to test our theory.

What you're attempting is impossible, sorry

Please tell what tool or feature you are using to get all those strands of hair separated form the background.

I am becoming quite familiar with layers and how to manipulate them; but, I do not as of yet understand this "mask" business.

Currently, my main hair selection tool is the Magic Extractor in Elements 7, but it leaves a bit to be desired --- possibly more my fault than the tool.


Thanks for reading.

It's just not a super clean/accurate mask. Some of it could be lighter hair against the bg, but 99% of it is just the edges of the hair surrounded by a pixel or two of the original grey, or in the case of the top right of his head where you can see through the hair to the background, a big chunk of grey. Refine edge for starters, then maybe select>modify>contract, and then I'd use the color replacement tool or mixer brush to blend the grey bits around the hair (assuming you're working on that masked layer) with brown tones from the surrounding.

Or try to get a cleaner mask from the jump, I prefer to use channel masking as I find it gives better (still not perfect) results that can be worked with other methods to get a better mask. Then clean up the frizzies afterwards (better to just clone out than worry about refining the mask).

Whatever you do, it's not fun and it's never quick. So patience and lots of coffee and you'll be fine

Thanks again for the input. I tried both refined edge masking and channel masking from the link below.


https://photoshoptrain​ingchannel.com/advance​-hair-masking/

been following this thread waiting to see if someone came up with a great solution.

i think you should be looking at a photoshop plug-in that specializes in this kind of masking work. Sorry I don't have a recommendation, but i think it would help you out tremendously.

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #17818306
been following this thread waiting to see if someone came up with a great solution.

i think you should be looking at a photoshop plug-in that specializes in this kind of masking work. Sorry I don't have a recommendation, but i think it would help you out tremendously.

I downloaded Topaz Remask 5 last night, same results.

If nothing else, this exercise is a good learning experience.

windpig wrote in post #17818244
Thanks again for the input. I tried both refined edge masking and channel masking from the link below.
https://photoshoptrain​ingchannel.com/advance​-hair-masking/

If that doesn't work, try these: Russell Brown Tips & Techniques: Advanced Masking
Look for the "Advanced Masking" ones.

How To Remove Background Around Lots Of Hair Photoshop CS6 Tutorial

Learn how to make complex hair selections in Photoshop

Thanks for the links, I'll check them out tonight.

Selecting/masking hair is one of the worst things to have to do, in terms of being common/necessary yet pretty difficult.

The best advice that I was given is to remember that you don't need to capture every detail of every flyaway hair. If you lose some of the outliers, that's OK (and maybe even desirable).

I have a similar task to complete and have been messing with this all morning, i think i am on to something good here. I am combining a few of the techniques i have seen this morning and adding my own twist. Windpig, would you mind posting either the original or a very low compression JPG version of the crop you have shown? The compression artifacts are making this harder than it should be.

I'd use my own images, but they aren't as difficult as yours being that the value differences between the hair and background are so close. I've noticed that every single tutorial uses someone with black hair on a white background.

okay, i'm happy with the results, but still would like a higher quality file to repeat the process.

If you will provide it, and provide permission to edit and repost the image, i will post a full tutorial.

Aside from the JPEG compression in the posted image, part of the issue is the monochromatic nature of both the hair and the background that takes away some of the power of using color channels as the starting point for a good mask. However, the hair does contain red tones, so the contrast should be better in the green or blue channel.

Usually, this kind of exercise is shot on a green screen or similar backdrop - skin tones and most hair is light in the grayscale red channel and the green background is dark in the red channel, making this channel a nice place to start the construction of a mask.

In this image, you are relying on separation between the subject hair and the background based on luminosity, more or less. In this case, you can try to use the most contrasty channel as a starting point and then use the regular tricks - levels adjustment to increase contrast, painting in Overlay mode, etc. and also Refine Edge in the Mask Properties dialog.

If you do this kind of extraction a lot, consider shooting against a chromakey background or similar field that provides more channel separation.

kirk