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Thread started 20 Dec 2015 (Sunday) 19:00
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Photographing white birds

 
Nascar ­ Nut
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Dec 20, 2015 19:00 |  #1

I went out yesterday to do a little BIF photography. I haven't really done any with my new setup (7D Markll & Sigma 150-600 Sport). I have a place I go to catch the eagles so that is what I tried. The eagles were not very cooperative but the pelicans and seagulls where. I have my camera setup with my shutter speed at 1000 and F8 and auto ISO. The metering mode is set to Evaluative. After going through my shots I notices almost all shots where over exposed a lot. Do you guys try to change the stops on the go as you are shooting or play around with the stops till you feel you have a general idea for the area you are shooting in and go with that. I had blue sky, trees and just the water for backgrounds. It pretty much over exposed in all scenarios. I didn't shoot a lot because I went there for the eagles but now I wish I would have played around a little more with the settings. It has been so cloudy around here that I hardly ever get a good day to shoot when I am off from work. Any advise would be much appreciated.




  
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BigAl007
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Dec 20, 2015 19:24 |  #2

First off are you shooting RAW? It really helps in these situations where you are dealing with very wide dynamic ranges. Raw allows you to keep the exposure up for the darker or undersides of the birds, while still being able to pull back the highlights to maintain detail there too. I would also try to avoid any of the semi-automatic exposure modes, Av, Tv or M/ISO. You are much better off taking a meter reading from a known reflectivity target, such as the palm of your hand, or even a grey card if you have one (the grey card is probably the most reliable, as you do not need a conversion factor to get to mid grey) more details can be found here. Use Spot meter (or partial if your body hasn't got spot, for other than the OP) to take the reading, this will ensure that you get a decent reading. I would then expose around +2/3 over mid grey. Personally I actually much prefer to use a hand held incident lightmeter for this, it's a situation the excel in. They seem to be quite unpopular with a lot of people on POTN though. Saying that many find the metering on Canon cameras to be a bit on the dark side often by about 2/3rd stop, so you would want to add both adjustments together. This should produce a good exposure where the highlights on the bird are just short of clipping in the RAW data. You will though get highlight warning blinkies on the processed JPEG preview.

If you really want to use an automatic mode when shooting then use center weighted average for your metering mode, not evaluative. The problem with Evaluative is that it is trying to be clever, and unfortunately this sort of subject is not one it is programmed to cope with. At least by using CWA the metering will be consistent from shot to shot. The problem with the differing backgrounds is that they will most likely change the amount of EC that you need to use, and you are not going to be able to change the EC fast enough while panning with the bird. That is why I always use full manual in this type of situation, although I shoot aviation rather than BiF.

Alan


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Larry ­ Johnson
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Post edited over 7 years ago by Larry Johnson. (2 edits in all)
     
Dec 20, 2015 19:33 |  #3

Nut,

This advise regarding metering (i.e. calibrating) your camera for white subjects was provided to me by a pro. Sounds like you need to understand metering in more depth. Here's his advise.

Method one for white bird: Spot meter something neutral tone (or grey) in same light as your subject. This gives you a proper exposure for neutral. Now the white bird is going to appear overexposed because white reflects for light than the grey background you spot metered. So to compensate for this you need to stop down (or take away light) to bring the bird back to true white.

Method two for white bird: Spot meter the white bird and open up 1-2 stops. Remember the cameras meter wants to make everything neutral gray, so when you meter the bird, the camera will give you an exposure that turns the white to gray, but you want a white bird not a gray one, so you need to open up (or add light) to make the bird white again.

My advice; don't shoot auto ISO or anything. Learn how to shoot in manual mode, then, after you have mastered manual mode, you can use the auto modes if you so desire.

here's a good read http://www.digitalbird​photography.com/cover.​html (external link) click to "enter" and see the table of contents.


_______________
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Shooting 7D2 with Canon 400mm, f/5.6.
60D, canon 18-135 EFS, and 1.4 extender in the bag.
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MalVeauX
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Dec 20, 2015 19:38 |  #4

Heya,

So it depends on whether the white bird has the sky behind it, or foliage (or other darker things). I shoot here in Florida so the sky is always present, and white birds are every where, and it's very easy to under-expose white birds, rather than over-expose. But I take two methods when I'm shooting in these two situations.

Bird in the sky or with sky background:

It's more common to underexpose the bird. Spot metering can help. But if you use evaluative or something broad, it will under-expose the white bird in the sky. For this situation, it's best to use Manual mode and meter and setup your shot. If you don't have that kind of time, or simply won't do it, using a semi-auto mode (AV) you can tighten it up by using spot meter or partial meter, and adding in some EC (I would go with +2/3 to +1, but it depends on the camera model and what you want out of it). RAW is very important here, because you'll rarely get perfect exposure on a white bird in the sky. So being able to get near proper exposure or slight over-exposure would be ideal, rather than under-exposure. RAW lets you make up that difference with more ease and cleaner.

Bird against foliage or darker backgrounds:

A lot easier to expose properly, but it's easy to over-expose the bird in this case depending on what meter you use, like evaluative. It's still best to use Manual and meter and setup your shot yourself. But if you're using AV or something, again, it's best to use some EC, and depending on what meter you use.

**************

I generally shoot AV like 90% of the time, due to fast changing light conditions (clouds; brush, etc). I generally always shoot with my EC at +1, if not even +1 & 1/3rd and I'm using partial metering. I don't use spot really unless it's critical. I do not use evaluative, because I'm always shooting animals in habitat and here in Florida that's often including a bright sky or reflective water, etc. Evaluative just under-exposes most everything in my experience when you have big bright elements in your composition and that dark brown bird is going to be under-exposed. I try to base my exposure on the subject, not the environment, so I tighten my metering (but not so tight as to use spot, and this is why I like partial). I shoot RAW 100%, because my exposure is rarely perfect, so RAW let's me have another stop or two of correction in post to get it right or at least get it to look how I wanted.

These are all AV and Partial Metering with +1 EC, shot in RAW. My common way to deal with white birds, is to alter exposure in RAW by a little bit to get the white to how I want it, then I drop highlights by a little bit to keep the white from glowing. If I have to drop exposure and lift shadows to make up for it, so be it.

IMAGE: https://farm1.staticflickr.com/618/23795099035_7121f13d08_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/CfG6​Wc  (external link) IMG_0063 (external link) by Martin Wise (external link), on Flickr

IMAGE: https://farm1.staticflickr.com/739/23712678151_4abf9cda6a_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/C8pF​5t  (external link) IMG_0050 (external link) by Martin Wise (external link), on Flickr

IMAGE: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5734/23499027700_7fdf9e7090_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/BNwE​f1  (external link) LE1M4407 (external link) by Martin Wise (external link), on Flickr

Back lighting from sun on white bird:

IMAGE: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5632/22830285894_b935d094bf_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/AMrb​AS  (external link) IMG_9762 (external link) by Martin Wise (external link), on Flickr

Very best,

My Flickr (external link) :: My Astrobin (external link)

  
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digital ­ paradise
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Dec 20, 2015 22:56 |  #5

Watch the 4th video. Getting the right exposure.

http://www.learn.usa.c​anon.com …birds_as_art_mo​rris.shtml (external link)


Image Editing OK

Website (external link) ~ Buy/Sell Feedback

  
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Nascar ­ Nut
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Dec 21, 2015 05:29 |  #6

Thank you everyone for all of your input. Lots to take in for sure. I do shoot raw all the time. I was shooting in manual mode set at shutter 1000 and F8 and auto ISO. I read a number of posts on BIF and guys using this setting or similar. I tried to use a shutter speed that would freeze the action. I got some pretty high ISO shots though when the shots where against the trees or water. But the one thing I noticed in almost all the shots was over exposed. So much so I couldn't completely fix them in photoshop. I will take in all the info posted here and try again and see how I do.




  
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SkipD
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Post edited over 7 years ago by SkipD.
     
Dec 21, 2015 06:22 |  #7

Nascar Nut wrote in post #17826721 (external link)
Thank you everyone for all of your input. Lots to take in for sure. I do shoot raw all the time. I was shooting in manual mode set at shutter 1000 and F8 and auto ISO. I read a number of posts on BIF and guys using this setting or similar. I tried to use a shutter speed that would freeze the action. I got some pretty high ISO shots though when the shots where against the trees or water. But the one thing I noticed in almost all the shots was over exposed. So much so I couldn't completely fix them in photoshop. I will take in all the info posted here and try again and see how I do.

The big takeaway from this thread, in my opinion, is to turn off the auto ISO. Use purely manual exposure settings. Let your brain make the decisions instead using the programming inside the camera as a crutch.


Skip Douglas
A few cameras and over 50 years behind them .....
..... but still learning all the time.

  
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Larry ­ Johnson
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Dec 21, 2015 08:59 |  #8

Nascar Nut wrote in post #17826350 (external link)
Do you guys try to change the stops on the go as you are shooting or play around with the stops till you feel you have a general idea for the area you are shooting in and go with that.

Change your camera settings as the light on your subject changes, just like changing the car's settings as the race track conditions change.
To set up your camera correctly, you must understand the 18% gray rule. Google it and learn it.


_______________
Ain't Nature Grand!
Shooting 7D2 with Canon 400mm, f/5.6.
60D, canon 18-135 EFS, and 1.4 extender in the bag.
flickr (external link)

  
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Photographing white birds
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