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FORUMS General Gear Talk Changing Camera Brands 
Thread started 30 Dec 2015 (Wednesday) 22:26
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Adding a Mirrorless, Maybe a switch.

 
AlanU
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Oct 11, 2016 22:14 |  #166

Pagman wrote in post #18154494 (external link)
Just been reading through - most of this (not all) and I wanted to ask - could a 1inch Bridge camera be thrown into the mix? say the Lumix FZ1000 with its DFD focus ability(same as GH4).

How would it compare ?


P.

DFD proprietary AF system from Panasonic is great but really only effective for photography and not for video.

Are you comparing Image quality ? The 1 inch cannot even come close to a Sony A6000/6300 or fuji 16mpx/ 24mpx crop sensor.


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Pagman
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Oct 11, 2016 22:34 |  #167

AlanU wrote in post #18154606 (external link)
DFD proprietary AF system from Panasonic is great but really only effective for photography and not for video.

Are you comparing Image quality ? The 1 inch cannot even come close to a Sony A6000/6300 or fuji 16mpx/ 24mpx crop sensor.


No not video just stills and only keeping it within the Lumix Gh3-4 and Oly OMD EM1 and asking how a FZ1000 would compare.


P.


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AlanU
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Oct 11, 2016 22:47 |  #168

Pagman wrote in post #18154615 (external link)
No not video just stills and only keeping it within the Lumix Gh3-4 and Oly OMD EM1 and asking how a FZ1000 would compare.

P.

I think the difference is seen in the depth of the images. Not dof but the lush rich files from a fuji. So far the rich files from the Fuji is hard to beat if you compare it to the M43 world and without a doubt 1 inch sensor.


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Fuji X-T2 w/battery booster | 16mm f/1.4 | 56 f/1.2 | 10-24 f/4.0 | 50-140 | TT685
Sony A7iii w/ Sigma MC-11 adapter | Godox V860iiS

  
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dalto
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Oct 12, 2016 02:44 |  #169

The Dark Knight wrote in post #18154319 (external link)
dalto wrote in post #18153799 (external link)
I switched in Canon over 10 years ago. I have flirted with m43 on and off for years until I got a Olympus e-m5ii last year. I used it almost exclusively since picking it up. It is great until you hit scenarios needing higher ISOs where sensor size become a problem. I recently ended up adding a Fuji X-T2 and seems to be a good supplement to my m43 kit.

Would love to hear more of your thoughts on Fuji vs M43.

I've built out a fairly minimal kit with both systems in the attempt to try to commit to one after trying them out for a while. Initially I thought Fuji was the one until I got into M43 recently and have been really impressed.

I am really trying to just commit to one system and sell off the other.

First, let me say I like both cameras a lot and am glad that I can have both and choose the one more suited to my purpose at the time. Here would be my comparison of key differences focusing on the things I tend to care about it.

Camera Differences between the x-t2 and e-m5ii:
I think that EVFs have reached the point where they are viable for most situations. Both cameras have good EVFs but the x-t2s is noticeably larger and easier to acquire quickly. The x-t2's EVF is also faster with minimal blackout. The Fuji uses a rear screen that tilts along both axis while the e-m5ii has a full articulating touch screen. This seems to be really controversial topic but personally I prefer the latter. A fully articulating screen allows virtually any angle you can think of and with a little practice can be manipulated rapidly. I find it especially useful on the tripod where space or angle constraints can put the camera in odd positions. The two way tilt screen is more flexible than a normal tilt but still has some constraints. It tilts up, down and right. I cannot tilt left but it can be pulled out from the body a little so it clears the eyepiece or other obstructions. Shooting portrait orientation up high is very difficult with this setup.

This is utterly subjective but I am definitely someone who prefers having lots of programmable buttons, knobs and dials. I like direct access to everything and Fuji is the king of direct access. The Fuji also feel more solid. I have nothing to back that up but when you hold it just feels well put together. Both cameras have decent autofocus systems when shooting static subjects. The Oly is not great when it comes to tracking a moving subject while the x-t2 does this quite effectively from my limited testing. I am looking forward to seeing what the e-m1ii will deliver for autofocus since it seems like it should be a big improvement. The e-m5ii leverages the touch screen to select focus points which is fast when taking photos using the screen. The x-t2 has a dedicated joystick for selecting focus points which is great when using the EVF. At the end of the day, I am finding the Fuji to be a more engaging platform to interact with and since photography is a hobby for me that is a pretty big factor.

System differences between m43 and Fuji APS-C:
I tend to prefer the 3:2 ratio of the Fuji to the 4:3 ratio. It is probably just because I am accustomed to seeing that resolution for so many years. IS is pretty important to me and Oly's IBIS is fantastic and effective. Having IS even with small and inexpensive primes is really useful in many situations. On the Fuji side, most of the XF zoom lenses have OIS(excluding the 16-55 2.8) but the prime lenses do not. Fuji's sensor provides noticeably better high ISO performance in my experience. When comparing prints ISO 3200 on the on m34 is probably closest to ISO 12800 on the Fuji. Even at 12800 the there is more detail to work with in the shadows than with m43. To me, high ISO performance is the biggest limitation of m43. The decreased resolution is not a big deal to me.

The Fuji lens selection is limited but filled with mid-to-high level lenses. Everything I have used in the Fuji line-up has been fantastic, especially the 18-55 kit lens. Unfortunately, inexpensive lenses are few and far between with Fuji. On the other hand, m43 has something for everyone from ultra-inexpensive to the wallet breaking. There is also a huge difference in size with m43 lenses with many being comparatively tiny. No other ILC system offers lenses like the Olympus 9-18mm UW zoom which you can drop in your pocket. The first time I saw the 14-150mm lenses I was blown away by how small and light they were. On the other hand, if you want high build quality, high performance, fast glass that is available as well. The amount of high-end lenses for m43 seems to be growing rapidly.

Lighting options for Fuji, especially off camera, are currently fairly dismal. Even the upcoming, long delayed, "new" Fuji flash is barely on-par with what the big systems offered 10 years ago. It seems like there is a decent amount of 3rd party support on the near horizon but we will see if anyone can really deliver.

Which system is "better" depends on what your priorities are. Unless high ISO performance is an absolute requirement I think that m43 is the better choice for travel. The ultra portable lens options make packing light easy. Other than that, you have to weigh the trade-offs which are plentiful. Which would I choose if I had to pick one? Probably Fuji at this moment in time. We will see what future m43 bodies bring.




  
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AlanU
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Oct 12, 2016 09:12 |  #170

Fuji has some "growing" to do with the Flash system. One of my main deal breaker in investing more into the system is the mediocre flash system. At this moment for my secondary system I'm beyond pleased when it comes to available light shooting.

IBIS is such a nice option to have from Oly. My opinion is that it's great for moments you want that extra stability. However as you require or depend on it when your using very slow shutter speeds when "life is on the move" this is where the high ISO capabilities of the M43 failed me regardless of how effective the IBIS operates. I have countless files where I know the IBIS helped but pushing the light sensitivity of the camera still gave me unacceptable noise. This is where I tested the fuji system and discovered a system equally as fun to use as the M43 but it consistently gave me more keepers and more manageable files at high iso.

Shooting Canon full frame I've become accustomed to a certain feel when manipulating raw files in Lightroom. The meaty files are great for pushing/pulling exposure. Nikon FF folks are even more spoiled for many years now however it seems Canon finally got something right with the 5dmk4.

Strange how the first thing I felt amazed with the "clunky" fuji file is how it reacted in Lightroom. Lush files that I've never ever experienced with my Micro 4/3 gear I've used as a secondary fun system. I only used 16mpx fuji bodies personally and it's much more closer to the "feel" i get while manipulating my 5d2/5d3 Raw files. I much prefer Fuji RAW files over my 80D. For my style of shooting (human subjects) I'd take fuji anyday over a 7dmk2 or 80d w/ Canon L lenses. My Canon FF is still my comfort zone but I'd also take a Nikon FF over Canon crop too. But honestly this is subjective talk while analyzing photos on an IPS monitor. Put all of this stuff on print (fuji , m43, FF) they all look great as long as you use whatever gear to it's max potential.

I want a 5dmk4 but it's a bit spendy at $4500CDN. However I know I'd even maximize my image quality even more due to it's ISO capabilities. I believe gear is equally as important as the photographer behind the lens.


5Dmkiv |5Dmkiii | 24LmkII | 35mm f/2 IS | 85 mkII L | 100L | 16-35L mkII | 24-70 f/2.8L mkii| 70-200 f/2.8 ISL mkII| 600EX-RT x2 | 580 EX II x2 | Einstein's
Fuji X-T2 w/battery booster | 16mm f/1.4 | 56 f/1.2 | 10-24 f/4.0 | 50-140 | TT685
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KenjiS
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Oct 12, 2016 20:08 |  #171

Pagman wrote in post #18154494 (external link)
Just been reading through - most of this (not all) and I wanted to ask - could a 1inch Bridge camera be thrown into the mix? say the Lumix FZ1000 with its DFD focus ability(same as GH4).

How would it compare ?


P.

My issue with the bridge type cameras (as I DID consider them) was simply handling for me wasnt very good...

I do not have big hands but i have issues with my hands that make a camera below a certain "size" very difficult for me to use, i wont be able to hold it steady and etc, which is why I dislike using the cameras in my smartphones and reach for my real one (Always amusing when i look at smartphones and the rep tries to sell me on the camera in it and when i say i dont care and they ask well why i say i carry a camera with me, It always leads to them wanting to see then a discussion as to why i still bother, Always good natured, and the GX8 gets a lot of "WOW thats a sexy camera" responses)

TBH for handling i still feel my 7D Mark II is king in my hands... I love my GX8 but it just isnt as easy to operate for me..


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Oct 12, 2016 20:14 |  #172

KenjiS wrote in post #18155457 (external link)
My issue with the bridge type cameras (as I DID consider them) was simply handling for me wasnt very good...

I do not have big hands but i have issues with my hands that make a camera below a certain "size" very difficult for me to use, i wont be able to hold it steady and etc, which is why I dislike using the cameras in my smartphones and reach for my real one (Always amusing when i look at smartphones and the rep tries to sell me on the camera in it and when i say i dont care and they ask well why i say i carry a camera with me, It always leads to them wanting to see then a discussion as to why i still bother, Always good natured, and the GX8 gets a lot of "WOW thats a sexy camera" responses)

TBH for handling i still feel my 7D Mark II is king in my hands... I love my GX8 but it just isnt as easy to operate for me..


What I like about the FZ1000(havn't got one) is its about the same size as the Nikon D7100, and its look is similar - busness like and with a Fully swivable screen to keep it safe when not in use- excellent.
Ok its only a 1nch sensor but its supposed to be very good, and In Dp comparometer its not much different in IQ from the Lumix GH4 and they share the same AF set up.


P.


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Deardorff
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Oct 22, 2016 10:29 |  #173

One problem with many of the cameras that do not have an optical viewfinder is the difficulty focusing and composing in dim light and at night.

Electronic finders are not too good on showing your composition when trying to photograph Northern Lights at night. A regular optical finder on a SLR does work well. The optical finder window of the Fuji X-Pro1 works OK also. Don't know bout the X-Pro2.

Another downer with electronic finders and screens is that they ruin your night vision. The bright screens for rear focus also spotlight you in a dimly lit jazz club - just what you don't need.


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Oct 22, 2016 10:37 |  #174

Deardorff wrote in post #18163804 (external link)
One problem with many of the cameras that do not have an optical viewfinder is the difficulty focusing and composing in dim light and at night.

Electronic finders are not too good on showing your composition when trying to photograph Northern Lights at night. A regular optical finder on a SLR does work well. The optical finder window of the Fuji X-Pro1 works OK also. Don't know bout the X-Pro2.

Another downer with electronic finders and screens is that they ruin your night vision. The bright screens for rear focus also spotlight you in a dimly lit jazz club - just what you don't need.

I find the opposite to be true. Why? Because exposure preview will lean on the signal gain by pushing the ISO and brighten the image via the viewfinder. thus you can see details in the viewfinder that would be pitch black with an OVF.


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Oct 22, 2016 18:44 |  #175

mystik610 wrote in post #18163813 (external link)
I find the opposite to be true. Why? Because exposure preview will lean on the signal gain by pushing the ISO and brighten the image via the viewfinder. thus you can see details in the viewfinder that would be pitch black with an OVF.

It goes both ways though... even with the a7S I found it hard to properly focus and compose for some long exposure night scenes, and the adjustment for your night sight in a dark club is definitely a little annoying.

That said, the pros of an EVF far outweigh the cons for me, and I agree with you that in most instances the EVF is "better" for lower light shooting in my experience.


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Nov 04, 2016 12:10 |  #176

Could also be a person to person thing, I have extremely good night vision (My vision in good light is however compromised) so for me im split 50/50, my advantages with EVF are the fact the GX8 one tilts for low angle shooting, something no optical viewfinders do


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