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FORUMS General Gear Talk Camera Vs. Camera 
Thread started 06 Jan 2016 (Wednesday) 21:02
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Nikon is Feeding Canon its lunch....and them some

 
MalVeauX
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Post edited over 4 years ago by MalVeauX.
     
Jan 07, 2016 04:25 |  #31

KenjiS wrote in post #17847853 (external link)
To be honest my bigger dissatisfaction in Canon is the feeling they've been going nuts releasing expensive lenses, Not lenses for the masses.

Still no normal fast prime for EF-S for instance, Everyone else has one of those. An EF-S 30mm f/1.8 would be lovely..

Would i switch? Eh... Maybe? I like the 200-500 VR, But I can also just get the sigma 150-600..

Hrm,

Are you not happy with the Sigma 30mm F1.4?

Canon isn't going to produce faster aperture EF-S primes most likely. They don't save space by doing so. Notice the 30mm F1.4 is big, it's not like it's a smaller lens. The reason you don't see a bunch of plastic body F1.4 and F1.8 primes for EF-S mount specifically from Canon is because it probably physically makes no sense to make those for that specific mount when they can just make them EF mount for everyone. They're not going to be smaller with those apertures.

That said I do agree that Canon revamping some of their entry & middle of the road lenses would be nice.

The 35 F2 IS is a phenomenal release, massively updated that lens, and this lens is so good it challenges the optics of the 35L. And it has IS!
The 50 F1.8 STM is a great release, fixed all the sins of the 50 F1.8 II, and it has improvements all around and a super attractive price. Good lens for all at that cost.
The 24 F2.8 STM is an interesting release, EF-S mount only (full frame shooters would LOVE a 24mm pancake), it's only F2.8 though, but a new pancake is a great thing. Great price.

But... where is the new 85mm? 85mm F2 IS?
Where is the new 28mm? They released these annoying 28mm and 24mm F2.8 IS lenses, that are nice, very good optically, have IS, but ... only F2.8. I guess that's the cost of not being Luxury.
A new 28mm F1.8 revamp would definitely be nice, such as 28mm F2 IS or something.
Funny they never re-released a 50mm other than budget this whole time. The 50mm F1.4 and the 50L both need a revamp (especially that F1.4).
Where is the new 100mm F2? They have a 100 F2.8L IS that gives you stabilization, but it's expensive. Why not a 100 F2 IS (non-macro)?

They have re-released most of the EF-S zooms with way better optics, and STM, and IS on several. These are actually crazy good lenses for their costs. They're just not 'fast.'

"Fast" EF-S glass doesn't save space. Look at the 17-55 F2.8 IS. It's huge. A good mid-range zoom for APS-C is a good thing, but I don't like the price of this thing. I do however like the overall package of the third party 17-50 F2.8's and they have stabilization too now. Unfortunately they just don't have awesome silent focus systems on those to keep the cost down.

So honestly making specific premium quality level lenses for EF-S doesn't make sense. Since space isn't being saved, it doesn't help them to limit the mount type. For an example, look at Sigma's 18-35 F1.8. It's massive. MASSIVE. Making fast premium glass for APS-C doesn't save space. So, most don't do it beyond one or two releases. Third parties are more vigorous because they don't have to worry about mount types and all release EF mounts.

It would be nice to see some more in-between glass though.

Mean while, Tamron has released:

35mm F1.8 VC <-- This lens challenges the 35 F2 IS.
45mm F1.8 VC <-- This lens in particular is super interesting, a stabilized 50mm basically that is still quite fast.
90mm F2.8 VC (macro) <-- This replaces 85mm and 100mm basically, is still fast just not super fast, and has stabilization.

I have a 22mm F2 pancake on my APS-C (EOS-M) and I absolutely adore that lens. But it was only possible on the smaller EOS-M EF-M mount size. The lens is practically as big as the other pancakes. It's just faster at F2 which is awesome.

30mm F1.4 on APS-C is a great general focal length.

Personally, I like 50mm on APS-C (and hate 50mm on full frame). But I prefer telephoto and the 50mm on APS-C behaves like my favorite focal length on full frame, which is 85mm.

I use APS-C, full frame and APS-H, so I really don't care about EF-S glass and care more about things that work across the EOS line. But I actually have more third party lenses than anything (Tamron actually). I have a handful of Canon lenses.

Very best,


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Jan 07, 2016 08:11 as a reply to  @ post 17847850 |  #32

:love::-)Wilt
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gonzogolf
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Jan 07, 2016 08:19 |  #33

It's a continual game of leap frog. Nikon's new camera beats canon's old one, until canon's new camera comes out. Worrying about what others have is just a recipe for an unhappy life.




  
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Jan 07, 2016 08:33 |  #34

I think the issue is that Canon hasn't really leapfrogged too many times over the past 6 or so years, mostly evolutionary. I don't recall hearing a bunch about potential AF issues with Nikon, then Nikon's DR and ISO performance (ala Sony) has really been a big eye opener, etc. About the only thing really from Canon has been resolution with the latest 5D series. Even the 1DX wasn't a leapfrog from most regards over Nikon offerings.

It used to be a pretty pronounced leapfrog from release to release between the manufacturers, but perhaps now we have hit the threshold where "things are good enough for the majority of consumers", so at this point, we only have resolution and ISO to work on. We have wireless flash control in bodies now, either via RF or optical, we have touch screens, articulating screens, mirror less, high ISO capabilities that works for a vast majority of conditions, great AF in low light or otherwise, 4K recording... I am not sure what the next set of wow-factors should be.


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MalVeauX
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Jan 07, 2016 08:50 |  #35

I guess I just don't need the latest & greatest, and certainly don't have a budget for the flag ship new releases anyways, so I generally don't care much about releases as they come on. Instead, I just like to watch the maturation of a line and see where the better value is in the mature market, rather than the latest market.

At the end of the day, one system doesn't rein supreme.

For all the glory that Nikon might be putting out, I don't see Canon sports & wildlife shooters switching to Nikon regardless of the camera, when their lenses are the 300 F2.8L II IS, 400 F2.8L II IS, 200-400 F4L IS, 500 F4L II IS, 600 F4L II IS, etc. I also don't see portrait shooters ditching their Canon for Nikon when their primary lenses are things like the 35L II, 85L II, 135L, 200 F2L IS, etc, let alone the MKII standard zooms they dropped.

I think Canon is doing well in terms of keeping people just from a lens stand point.

For a hard core landscaper, I totally get the whole move to Nikon/Sony thing after several releases from Canon being mostly behind everything Nikon/Sony is pushing.

Very best,


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Wilt
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Jan 07, 2016 08:51 |  #36

MalVeauX wrote in post #17848057 (external link)
Hrm,

Are you not happy with the Sigma 30mm F1.4?...

30mm F1.4 on APS-C is a great general focal length.
,

Sigma now lists that lens as 'discontinued'...as does B&H


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umphotography
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Jan 07, 2016 08:53 |  #37

I have personally seen the D4s files v/s the 1Dx files. They are both very good until the 1Dx completely falls apart in darks and shadows after 12800. The D4s smokes the 1Dx in High ISO performance and dark/shadow retention.....By a lot. So unless you can see this for yourself, you should probably not believe what the canon fan boys on the net are saying.....because likely they have no fricken clue because they have not seen the files side by side

Also- im not a gear junkie. I buy for my needs for our business. These days we shoot in extremely dark conditions and ability for cameras to lock in the dark and High ISO performance are at the top of most wedding photographers lists.

The D5 is going to have a -4 EV on the center point and -3 EV everyplace else and spot everywhere you ca put it...Thats impressive

OK so I guess im more frustrated then anything else. And. Im waaaaaaaay to invested to switch

But for crying out loud canon needs to address the situation

Im told by powers to be that the new 1Dx sensor is supposed to be the game changer for canon....Finally....so we shall see

But make no mistake. The D5 leapfrogs, smokes, Kicks Canons 1Dx right in the nuts at every place you will test it at.

I love my 5D3's and I love the 7D2...both do a great job...So im going to wait it out for this release. Hopefully the technology trickles down to the 5D series like it did for the last update. But im prepared to go 1Dx2 if it does not.

Canon seems to be fixated on updating lens and I guess im very frustrated with that. I just got a 300L F/2.8 used version1 lens. And i went out with a guy that has the new version11 300L....it has some nice updates and it looks a tad better straight off the camera. But How good does it have to look and how much are you willing to spend for lens updates. I spent 3700.00 v/s 7400.00 for the new one and I can 1000% promise you there is not $4000.00 worth of improvement in the lens update. This is the same for many updates. Definitely nothing that cant be duplicated in post. I have a version 2 preset i use in LR...cost me nothing :-)

But I get that the junkies need their lens fixations

If canon wants to be the industry leader they need to back off the lens updates and fix what most professionals say are the issues.

Canons problems was never the glass.

SENSOR TECHNOLOGY- dark and shadow retention and dynamic range, continued AF performance and industry leading technology.....wake up Canon....you just got surpassed by a lot....a heck of a leap by Nikon and it could be a 5-6 year leap

The D5s is going to be an impressive release. ISO and AF performance /improvements are going to make it a game changer. 99 cross points. Holy crapola thats amazing. The number of focal points and im going to bet that 25K iso will be a completely usable file are going to be impressive. -4 EV.....wow

Really hoping Canon can keep up


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MalVeauX
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Jan 07, 2016 09:01 |  #38

Wilt wrote in post #17848260 (external link)
Sigma now lists that lens as 'discontinued'...as does B&H

That's because it's the 30 F1.4 ART now.

Very best,


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Jan 07, 2016 09:04 |  #39

MalVeauX wrote in post #17848274 (external link)
That's because it's the 30 F1.4 ART now.

,

Sigma oughta update its web site to make it more apparent as to which is which, as it only lists "50mm F1.4 EX DG HSM | A"


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Jan 07, 2016 09:17 |  #40

Wilt wrote in post #17848281 (external link)
Sigma oughta update its web site to make it more apparent as to which is which, as it only lists "50mm F1.4 EX DG HSM | A"

Sigma is going to continue to give canon fits.

the new fine at series are impressive and they are much less than canons L glass

put a 35 Fine art against any other 35L out there.... wow for the $$$ it cant be beat

Im waiting for the 85 Fine art update

the Sigma 150-600 sport is the best in its class.....Canon only wants the upper end pro photographer and they want them to buy very expensive $$$$ 10-12,000.00 lens $$$$$$........please..​...the 150-600 sigma sport Kicks serious butt and is by far the best daylight long zoom on the market. So canon is going to get a run for its money and left behind

seems to me that Canon has the pocket wizard mentality....and we all know what happened to pocket wizard


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Jan 07, 2016 09:18 |  #41

If Sigma comes out with a serous contender in the 300 F/2.8 club or the 500 F/4 club....Canon will be screwed


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Jan 07, 2016 09:20 |  #42

During the holiday break I finally had time to visit my usual local camera shops for a visit. I helped a friend of mine purchase a very capable Canon G9X point and shoot. I was going to pick up an older Sony RX100 mk2. I discovered that the the fresh new Canon G9X is using a one inch SONY sensor............WHAT​????!!!!?????

I was just smiling praying for Canon's slow turtle pace to finally bow down and start using Sony sensors in their DSLR's.

With all of the new fresh lenses Canon is making for "us" silly Canon fanboys I think we're definitely taking some serious mental abuse using lower tier sensor technology.

I congratulate Nikon for creating killer new bodies with incredible specs on "paper". It'll do exactly as it should in the real world with little issues. The D5 and D500 sounds like a nice addition to Nikon users.

However it's quite fascinating to know many "clients" or friends and family care more of the money shot facial expressions and pivotal moments in the images. We seem to always obsess about latest technology.

I simply cannot jump to Nikon/Sony due to financial reasons....


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Post edited over 4 years ago by MalVeauX.
     
Jan 07, 2016 09:21 |  #43

umphotography wrote in post #17848304 (external link)
If Sigma comes out with a serous contender in the 300 F/2.8 club or the 500 F/4 club....Canon will be screwed

I'm so waiting for a Sigma 300 F2.8, without OS is fine. If that thing was affordable compared to Canon's, I'd feint. End game lens for me.

I want a 300 F2.8L, but I also don't want to drop $2k for a non-serviceable lens at this point.

I want Sigma's 120-300 F2.8 OS as it is. It's affordable. Just too many other priorities right now soaking up that money. Kids & dentists, ugh.

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Jan 07, 2016 09:35 |  #44

MalVeauX wrote in post #17848310 (external link)
I'm so waiting for a Sigma 300 F2.8, without OS is fine. If that thing was affordable compared to Canon's, I'd feint. End game lens for me.

I want a 300 F2.8L, but I also don't want to drop $2k for a non-serviceable lens at this point.

I want Sigma's 120-300 F2.8 OS as it is. It's affordable. Just too many other priorities right now soaking up that money. Kids & dentists, ugh.

Very best,


I sold the 120-300 and bought the 300L version when the lens updated. It smokes the 120-300 but i miss the zoom at times. Its is a beast and very heavy and F/2.8 is a bit soft. But great lens. The 300L version 1 is MUCH better and no comparison on Image quality.....300L smokes it everywhere

these are straight offs with the 300L
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Post edited over 4 years ago by Wilt. (3 edits in all)
     
Jan 07, 2016 09:44 as a reply to  @ umphotography's post |  #45

umphotography wrote:
Sigma is going to continue to give canon fits....If Sigma comes out with a serous contender in the 300 F/2.8 club or the 500 F/4 club....Canon will be screwed

While Sigma does offer a nice full array of products, it does need to overcome the hurdles of its past history

  • Need to re-chip lenses for newer models (and it stops rechipping at some point)...admittedly the new plug in updates helps!
  • Higher incidence than other lens brands of needing to send a new lens in for focus error adjustment (and coming back unchanged, to the frustration of owners)


A number of folks have bad taste in their mouth left from bad experiences like these. Hard to 'eat Canon's lunch' under those perceptions.

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Nikon is Feeding Canon its lunch....and them some
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