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FORUMS General Gear Talk Camera Vs. Camera 
Thread started 06 Jan 2016 (Wednesday) 21:02
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Nikon is Feeding Canon its lunch....and them some

 
idkdc
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Feb 29, 2016 19:00 |  #721

speedync wrote in post #17918337 (external link)
What makes you think I was unhappy before? I didn't ask for your life story either. Not sure why you think that's relevant. A simple "I'm personally not that keen on the 6D's controls " would have been more than sufficient. Perfectly reasonable view.
Signed, happy Panasonic & Canon shooter.

Ok, now you're really just logic chopping / nit-picking for the sake of being obnoxious. The 6D's controls are almost objectively inferior to the 5D3 and D700 series cameras, therefore it is not definitive of Canon controls as a whole. Happy shooting.


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Myboostedgst
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Feb 29, 2016 19:01 |  #722

As in the famous words of Ron Burgandy, "Well that escalated quickly".

Let me clarify:
The 6D feels good in my hand, physically holding it. It is the perfect size and weight for a camera. The front grip is perfectly sized, and my hand wraps around quite nicely. The control layout is what does it in for me. I know many people like it, and for someone who doesnt need to change settings quickly this is perfectly fine. I like to move quickly, so I need something that feels like it can "take it". Something about the build quality, namely the buttons, make me feel like it is a bit fragile (even though I know it isnt any more fragile than similar segment cameras). I feel the same way holding the Sony A7 series, and many people LOVE them.

The D600/610 feels more robust, and while it doesn't feel quite as perfect a fit simply sitting in the hand, once you actually start using the body and having to slightly move fingers and your hand to adjust settings/etc, that is where it truely shines in my hand.

I just got back from Best Buy to do some test shots with a D610 and some of their lenses. Upon initial pickup, the 6D feels better/smoother, but once you start to use it the Nikon feels perfect. It's weird to try and convey, just how I feel holding each body.


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speedync
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Feb 29, 2016 19:08 |  #723

Myboostedgst wrote in post #17918340 (external link)
As in the famous words of Ron Burgandy, "Well that escalated quickly"

:)

I just got back from Best Buy to do some test shots with a D610 and some of their lenses. Upon initial pickup, the 6D feels better/smoother, but once you start to use it the Nikon feels perfect. It's weird to try and convey, just how I feel holding each body.

Nah, I understand completely. Different things appeal to different people. Just because I don't like it, doesn't mean it sucks. And vice versa. Go with what you're happy with. No need to justify your decisions by bagging everything else. :)

PS -I'm not inferring you're bagging everything else by the way.




  
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idkdc
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Feb 29, 2016 19:25 |  #724

Myboostedgst wrote in post #17918340 (external link)
As in the famous words of Ron Burgandy, "Well that escalated quickly".

Let me clarify:
The 6D feels good in my hand, physically holding it. It is the perfect size and weight for a camera. The front grip is perfectly sized, and my hand wraps around quite nicely. The control layout is what does it in for me. I know many people like it, and for someone who doesnt need to change settings quickly this is perfectly fine. I like to move quickly, so I need something that feels like it can "take it". Something about the build quality, namely the buttons, make me feel like it is a bit fragile (even though I know it isnt any more fragile than similar segment cameras). I feel the same way holding the Sony A7 series, and many people LOVE them.

The D600/610 feels more robust, and while it doesn't feel quite as perfect a fit simply sitting in the hand, once you actually start using the body and having to slightly move fingers and your hand to adjust settings/etc, that is where it truely shines in my hand.

I just got back from Best Buy to do some test shots with a D610 and some of their lenses. Upon initial pickup, the 6D feels better/smoother, but once you start to use it the Nikon feels perfect. It's weird to try and convey, just how I feel holding each body.

I personally like the D750 better than the D610 or 6D. Have you given that camera a try?

And my original point before I was interrupted was that the difference between the 6D and D610 is model specific, not necessarily indicative of Canon vs Nikon controls as a whole.


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Myboostedgst
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Feb 29, 2016 19:43 |  #725

idkdc wrote in post #17918360 (external link)
I personally like the D750 better than the D610 or 6D. Have you given that camera a try?

And my original point before I was interrupted was that the difference between the 6D and D610 is model specific, not necessarily indicative of Canon vs Nikon controls as a whole.

It's slightly bigger, heavier, and more expensive. A more robust AF system is never a bad thing, but it's not needed for my work. And I don't like the articulating screen. Overall I just don't like the feel of the D750 any more than the D610.


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idkdc
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Feb 29, 2016 19:46 |  #726

Myboostedgst wrote in post #17918382 (external link)
It's slightly bigger, heavier, and more expensive. A more robust AF system is never a bad thing, but it's not needed for my work. And I don't like the articulating screen. Overall I just don't like the feel of the D750 any more than the D610.

Gotcha.


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Copidosoma
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Feb 29, 2016 20:00 |  #727

Alveric wrote in post #17915384 (external link)
Sometimes we don't want such detail visible at all. And this is a concern of mine: will having 'full' DR prevent us from taking shots such as silhouettes which rely on inky shadows for their success? I really don't want the camera seeing scenes as my eyes see them: the 'faults' and limitations of photographic equipment that frustrate so many are the very tools that some others find essential in their image making.

You can easily clip the information to keep blacks black.


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Copidosoma
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Feb 29, 2016 20:03 |  #728

Wilt wrote in post #17915449 (external link)
No, I am not ignoring the print's inability to display the DR...it has always had that limitation compared to projected images.
But I am wondering why the compulsion for 14EV or more of DR when NEITHER the monitor nor the print can display it!...just asking

Because having the information available to compress it into a format that CAN be viewed in a print or on a screen is very valuable in some cases. Why limit your technology and images to what you can display on your screen at the moment?

If the information is there you can bring it into your final image/display. If that information is just garbled noise and garbage then you are just going to be left with undetailed shadows that you can never recover.

Good enough for you? Great. Some of us want more.


Gear: 7DII | 6D | Fuji X100s |Sigma 24A, 50A, 150-600C |24-105L |Samyang 14 2.8|Tamron 90mm f2.8 |and some other stuff
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Tom ­ Reichner
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Feb 29, 2016 20:18 |  #729

Copidosoma wrote in post #17918414 (external link)
Because having the information available to compress it into a format that CAN be viewed in a print or on a screen is very valuable in some cases. Why limit your technology and images to what you can display on your screen at the moment?

If the information is there you can bring it into your final image/display. If that information is just garbled noise and garbage then you are just going to be left with undetailed shadows that you can never recover.

Good enough for you? Great. Some of us want more.

Exactly!

If your sensor is only capable of 12 stops of DR, and you have 14 stops of DR in the scene that you photograph, and then compress the image to 7 stops of DR for a print, it is going to look crappy.

If you photograph the same scene with a sensor that is capable of 14 stops of DR, and compress the image down to the same 7 stops for a print, then that print is going to look great!

The reason to have a lot of DR is to get results that have a qualitative (aesthetic) difference over less DR - not to get results that can in some way be quantified. A lot of art, photography included, goes beyond the things that can be expressed numerically. And in my opinion the results you get when you have a lot more DR capability is just more pleasing to the eye.

.


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brettjrob
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Feb 29, 2016 22:24 |  #730

I owned the 6D for a year, and now the D610 for the past two. While I much prefer the D610 overall (primarily due to the sensor), I would disagree that it feels more robust. The 6D felt pleasantly solid/hefty and the body didn't scratch as easily. I understand the controls probably aren't the most impressive for someone coming from a pro-series model like the D800/D4 or 5D3/1Dx, though.

In terms of ergonomics: changing ISO on the D610 annoys the life out of me. It's caused me lots of grief in tense situations. And it's far too easy to accidentally change from RAW to JPG when you're trying to change ISO, which could be absolutely disastrous. Overall, the design of the 6D just made more sense to me than the D610, in terms of changing ISO, shutter/aperture, the scroll wheel for browsing images, the play and zoom buttons, etc. Nikon's philosophy of a dense array of dedicated buttons for everything can backfire when time is of the essence. Oh, and I still can't believe there's no way to illuminate the top-facing display permanently on the D610 - not good for night landscapes and astro.


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idkdc
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Feb 29, 2016 22:31 |  #731

brettjrob wrote in post #17918639 (external link)
I owned the 6D for a year, and now the D610 for the past two. While I much prefer the D610 overall (primarily due to the sensor), I would disagree that it feels more robust. The 6D felt pleasantly solid/hefty and the body didn't scratch as easily. I understand the controls probably aren't the most impressive for someone coming from a pro-series model like the D800/D4 or 5D3/1Dx, though.

In terms of ergonomics: changing ISO on the D610 annoys the life out of me. It's caused me lots of grief in tense situations. And it's far too easy to accidentally change from RAW to JPG when you're trying to change ISO, which could be absolutely disastrous. Overall, the design of the 6D just made more sense to me than the D610, in terms of changing ISO, shutter/aperture, the scroll wheel for browsing images, the play and zoom buttons, etc. Nikon's philosophy of a dense array of dedicated buttons for everything can backfire when time is of the essence. Oh, and I still can't believe there's no way to illuminate the top-facing display permanently on the D610 - not good for night landscapes and astro.

Going slightly off-tangent, what I didn't like about the D750 was that adjusting the ISO turns on the back display until you do a konami code button press (okay, maybe not that complicated, but you still had to hold down a few buttons to prevent the screen from turning on). This was extremely annoying in low-light situations. Little things like this are niggling oversights that just didn't make any sense to me (it would cost little to nothing to fix).

Personally, I like the D700/D300/D3/D800/D5/D​500 clustered controls more than the D90/D7000/D600 controls as I think those are much better thought out than prosumer designs.


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Myboostedgst
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Feb 29, 2016 22:56 |  #732

brettjrob wrote in post #17918639 (external link)
I owned the 6D for a year, and now the D610 for the past two. While I much prefer the D610 overall (primarily due to the sensor), I would disagree that it feels more robust. The 6D felt pleasantly solid/hefty and the body didn't scratch as easily. I understand the controls probably aren't the most impressive for someone coming from a pro-series model like the D800/D4 or 5D3/1Dx, though.

In terms of ergonomics: changing ISO on the D610 annoys the life out of me. It's caused me lots of grief in tense situations. And it's far too easy to accidentally change from RAW to JPG when you're trying to change ISO, which could be absolutely disastrous. Overall, the design of the 6D just made more sense to me than the D610, in terms of changing ISO, shutter/aperture, the scroll wheel for browsing images, the play and zoom buttons, etc. Nikon's philosophy of a dense array of dedicated buttons for everything can backfire when time is of the essence. Oh, and I still can't believe there's no way to illuminate the top-facing display permanently on the D610 - not good for night landscapes and astro.

The thing that makes no sense to me, is using my thumb on the scroll wheel at the bottom middle of the body. The thumb when resting sits up towards the top right. On Nikons the rear wheels in built into the top right. My thumb moves less than few centimeters to adjust that wheel. Where as the 6D I have to move my thumb all of the way down to the middle bottom of the body. What this does is pull my plan away from the side of the body, making me feel less confident I have a good grip on the body still.

Also, the zoom on the Canon is stupid. Why the hell do I have to press the magnifying glass, then scroll the wheel in and out to zoom? I hate it. That might be my absolute biggest complaint about the body. The Nikon is super simple. Left thumb, press the + to zoom in, one press for each step in, and the - for each step out. That makes the most sense to me.

But those are all very personal things for people. I am going to stick it out this summer and see if I can get the hang of the 6D. I certainly hope so, and I certainly my hope that I finally get comfortable with my 135L and love it as much as I was hoping I would when I made the jump.


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idkdc
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Feb 29, 2016 23:02 |  #733

Myboostedgst wrote in post #17918675 (external link)
The thing that makes no sense to me, is using my thumb on the scroll wheel at the bottom middle of the body. The thumb when resting sits up towards the top right. On Nikons the rear wheels in built into the top right. My thumb moves less than few centimeters to adjust that wheel. Where as the 6D I have to move my thumb all of the way down to the middle bottom of the body. What this does is pull my plan away from the side of the body, making me feel less confident I have a good grip on the body still.

Also, the zoom on the Canon is stupid. Why the hell do I have to press the magnifying glass, then scroll the wheel in and out to zoom? I hate it. That might be my absolute biggest complaint about the body. The Nikon is super simple. Left thumb, press the + to zoom in, one press for each step in, and the - for each step out. That makes the most sense to me.

But those are all very personal things for people. I am going to stick it out this summer and see if I can get the hang of the 6D. I certainly hope so, and I certainly my hope that I finally get comfortable with my 135L and love it as much as I was hoping I would when I made the jump.

I liked my two copies of 135L over the 135DC. It shines on a more comprehensive AF platform though since DOF is extremely thin.

The wheel can have that downside (I move between my Canon and Nikon bodies on a daily basis), but it does have durability and fast review (scroll through hundreds of images) advantages as pro's. Also, the scroll wheel for the 6D is a lot more narrow than other bodies, something I don't particuarly enjoy on it but live with whenever I need to use it.

The zoom takes getting used to (7D/5D2/1D was +/- like Nikon before the 5D3/1DX/7D2). It took me a few months to adapt to it. I end up just setting zoom to 100% to AF point with a single button push of the magnifying glass / set button since I usually just use it to confirm focus with my wide aperture lenses.


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Jul 03, 2016 18:54 |  #734

.

Charlie wrote in post #17886185 (external link)
IMAGE NOT FOUND
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/png'
Viewing the Manhattan sunset (external link) by Charlie (external link), on Flickr

this shot just wouldnt be the same if I shot opposite to the sun :-P

skid00skid00 wrote in post #17888427 (external link)
This is the very first pushed-shadows image I've ever seen, where pushing the shadows makes the image sing.
Thank you for posting this.

Oh-it's a beautiful shot, too!

.

I wish we could see this photo of Charlie's - for some reason, it has disappeared (sad face).

.

.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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Nikon is Feeding Canon its lunch....and them some
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