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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos RAW, Post Processing & Printing 
Thread started 09 Jan 2016 (Saturday) 17:39
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Lightroom not kind to 7D II RAW files?

 
n1as
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Jan 09, 2016 17:39 |  #1

I'm finding the 7D-2 raw files have poorer colors than the 5D-3 files do when both are imported into Lightroom. I need to boost saturation or vibrance by about 20 to get the images to be close.

JPG files from the 7D-2 seem to be OK, though I haven't done that much testing with them.

Is there a better raw processor for the 7D-II?


- Keith
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DGStinner
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Jan 09, 2016 18:11 |  #2

Any chance you have a develop preset set for when you import images specifically from the 5D3?


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n1as
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Jan 09, 2016 18:39 |  #3

No, I don't have any presets applied on import, but I've been playing with LR for the last hour and have figured something out.

If I change the Camera Calibration / Profile from Adobe Standard to Camera Standard the images look a LOT better. A lot. Then, reduce contrast by about -10 and saturation by about the same and I'm in business.

Or at least a lot closer :-)


- Keith
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Larry ­ Johnson
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Jan 09, 2016 19:10 |  #4

n1as wrote in post #17851602 (external link)
No, I don't have any presets applied on import, but I've been playing with LR for the last hour and have figured something out.

If I change the Camera Calibration / Profile from Adobe Standard to Camera Standard the images look a LOT better. A lot. Then, reduce contrast by about -10 and saturation by about the same and I'm in business.

Or at least a lot closer :-)

THANK YOU!


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Alveric
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Post edited over 3 years ago by Alveric. (2 edits in all)
     
Jan 09, 2016 19:21 |  #5
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You should always be using the camera's own profiles, not Adobe Standard. You'd probably need to create a preset that uses the camera's and applies it on import to prevent LR from using Adobe's. That's what I did when I used LR: had a preset that would set the photos to Camera Neutral, apply Lens Profile Corrections, and Linear Curve.

The only time I'd change the profiles was for creative purposes, but I mostly used Neutral or Faithful.


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n1as
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Jan 09, 2016 19:25 |  #6

I've never used camera profiles in the past but I may want to back and re-think that. Hmm.

Good idea on setting up a preset as well. That is something else I just haven't done.


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Alveric
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Post edited over 3 years ago by Alveric.
     
Jan 09, 2016 19:30 |  #7
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Let's put it this way: the profiles are the camera's 'recorded reality', whilst Adobe Standard is Adobe's, erm, 'standard' interpretation of the captured image. Which one would you trust more?

From Canon's own docs: https://www.learn.usa.​canon.com …tureStyles_Quic​kGuide.pdf (external link) Canon calls them Picture Styles, LR calls them Profiles.

You'll find there the reasons why I always used Neutral or Faithful. My purpose is to always begin with the closest, unadulterated, unenhanced image, as it's closest to what my eyes saw when I made the capture. I then go from there. :)

Another instance would be to use custom profiles, such as when you use the XRite Color Passport for colour accuracy. That's one reason I don't like the Color Passport: it generates profiles, which can become unmanageable and multitudinous. I prefer datacolor's SpyderCheckr, which uses the HSL/Color module and so it's less messy.


'The success of the second-rate is deplorable in itself; but it is more deplorable in that it very often obscures the genuine masterpiece. If the crowd runs after the false, it must neglect the true.' —Arthur Machen
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BigAl007
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Jan 09, 2016 20:08 |  #8

The thing is that the Adobe Standard profile, is a profile just like all the other "Camera" options, and specific to each camera body you are using.

The difference is that the Adobe Standard profile is designed to give a conversion that is approximatly consistent across all bodies from all manufacturers. So if you have both a Canon and a Nikon body, the Adobe Standard conversion should look about the same from each body.

For the Canon bodies, and I assume other makes where manufacturers offer them, the Camera profiles are designed to match the same named profile as offered by the cameras JPEG processing engine, or OEM RAW converter.

I used to use Camera Landscape a lot, but recently I have also been using Adobe Standard quite a bit. Personally unless you are doing very critical colour matching, where you should be profiling your own camera, profile choice is really an artistic choice, so try out some different options.

One thing to remember though is changing the profile will often require significant other changes to all the basic tab controls, including the WB, for best results. One reason I started using Adobe Standard more was because I was finding that the Camera profiles all tended to push the reds up too much so that they would clip. Adobe Standard is much nicer to those red hues. At least for my camera, and shooting style.

Alan


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Dan ­ Marchant
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Post edited over 3 years ago by Dan Marchant.
     
Jan 10, 2016 00:18 |  #9

The nice thing about Lightroom is that if a profile/preset isn't exactly what you want you can make an adjustment and save that as a user preset (so it is always available in future). You can also create Import presets which can automatically add keywords and apply Develop presets.

I have several Import presets for different types of shoot (Rugby, Landscapes, Portraits, Street) each of which applies different Develop presets (EG black and white processing and assorted colour variants), keywords etc.


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TerminalCity
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Jan 10, 2016 03:22 |  #10

I agree that the Adobe Standard profile seems particularly flat for the 7DII. The other calibration profiles that are provided in Lightroom by default are also Adobe derived approximations to the Canon picture styles, but they're probably a better starting point than Adobe Standard.

I use an X-rite ColoUrchecker Passport to generate some profiles for each camera - you don't really need many - for most things a dual-illuminant profile for daylight and incandescent is quite sufficient, though I also have profiles for my ND filters and CPL's, also a few for specific lighting conditions when I needed a higher degree of accuracy.
Having the colour and contrast curve essentially normalised in the camera calibration gives maximum flexibility (to me) in my lightroom develop presets as I can have a few presets to adjust the HSL panels without resetting the overall calibration which is what would happen with Datacolors approach (not that one approach is better than the other, just if you were to pick one or the other it's important to consider how it will integrate with your workflow).




  
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mwsilver
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Post edited over 3 years ago by mwsilver. (3 edits in all)
     
Jan 17, 2016 18:05 |  #11

Alveric wrote in post #17851648 (external link)
You should always be using the camera's own profiles, not Adobe Standard. You'd probably need to create a preset that uses the camera's and applies it on import to prevent LR from using Adobe's. That's what I did when I used LR: had a preset that would set the photos to Camera Neutral, apply Lens Profile Corrections, and Linear Curve.

The only time I'd change the profiles was for creative purposes, but I mostly used Neutral or Faithful.

Adobe Lightroom does not use "the camera's own profiles". When opening Canon raw files in Lightroom none of the in-camera profiles are available. All the profiles in Lightroom are ones that Adobe developed in an attempt to simulate specific camera profiles. However, they are not the same and if you compare those profiles in Lightroom with the actual Canon profiles in DPP, the colors and saturation tend to look quite different.


Mark
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Larry ­ Johnson
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Jan 17, 2016 19:25 |  #12

mwsilver wrote in post #17861960 (external link)
Adobe Lightroom does not use "the camera's own profiles". When opening Canon raw files in Lightroom none of the in-camera profiles are available. All the profiles in Lightroom are ones that Adobe developed in an attempt to simulate specific camera profiles. However, they are not the same and if you compare those profiles in Lightroom with the actual Canon profiles in DPP, the colors and saturation tend to look quite different.

This is interesting. Is there a way to import the canon DPP profile into lightroom or make a User Profile that is identical to canon's profile for the 7D2?


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TerminalCity
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Jan 17, 2016 19:52 |  #13

Larry Johnson wrote in post #17862042 (external link)
This is interesting. Is there a way to import the canon DPP profile into lightroom or make a User Profile that is identical to canon's profile for the 7D2?

No, not really... Though I suppose you could use DPP to export a .tif and develop that further in LR.
(Though if you like Canons' profiles there's nothing wrong with using DPP alone, it's actually quite capable if not particularly intuitive. The lens optimisations are particularity good on highly detailed images / wildlife.)

Otherwise, it's back to hoping that the Adobe profiles are close enough for you, or tweaking those further to get closer for your purposes, or going with a custom calibration option (which of course, are also different to Canon but give you a known starting point that can then be constant across multiple camera bodies profiled with the same target).

You pick your poison ;-)a.




  
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Lightroom not kind to 7D II RAW files?
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