Canon MP-E question

Today because I couldn't go outside I decide to experiment with some settings at 5x magnification.
Here is one at f/7(all other settings were changed as necessary to get approximately the correct exposure)

Here is one at f/16(all other settings were changed as necessary to get approximately the correct exposure). I think
a) I should have used a tripod to make the testing more comparable
b) That the difference is small
c) f/7 is slightly sharpter


i) Has anyone else done similar testing?
ii) If so what conclusions did you reach?
iii) For 5x magnification what do you use and how did you choose it?

This was all done on the Canon 7D MKII
BTW I did also do some testing on the 550D and Canon EF-S with f from 16-32 and I couldn't see much difference (this was at a much higher level of magnification half life size.

At 5x, the effective aperture is much smaller than the nominal aperture. The very tiny aperture causes major diffraction softening.

Check the lens manual for the effective apertures. Sorry, I'm on my mobile now and can't look myself.

But to get sharp results at 5x, going by memory, you should be at around f/4.

Of course DOF is very thin at f/4, so you need to do focus stacking to get the DOF you need.

Shooting at 5x is technically difficult.

Effective aperture for the 65mm lens, from the manual and some numbers calculated by me follow.

Archibald wrote in post #17852838
Effective aperture for the 65mm lens, from the manual and some numbers calculated by me follow.

Hosted photo: posted by Archibald in
./showthread.php?p=178​52838&i=i108790156
forum: Macro

The numbers in bold give a rough compromise aperture to stay below for good sharpness.

Good info on effective aperture of this lens is here.
http://pikespeakphoto.​com/tests/canonlens_mp​-e.html

That is interesting so I should have tried f 3.6 at 5x? I will have to try that (sadly the little monster -my son - is being an insomniac so I can't now).

Obviously you will get next to no depth of field when using wide apertures for best resolution so you have to take multiple images at different focal planes and then combine them in stacking software to get the depth of field.

Did you use some sort of focusing technique? Apart from having the lens mounted on tripod. Let alone some other solid surfaces. Because f/16 at 5x is freakingly dark. You see chit. The effective aperture formula is: effective f = (M+1)*f# where M is magnification and f# is the one actually used. That goes around f/96. Pitch dark.

Many people have done comparisons - see below for one I did ages ago.
What you consider a good aperture to use is just a balance between DOF and diffraction softening and is a matter of personal choice.

I prefer fairly sharp shots so as commented above tend to try and keep the effective aperture between F22 and F32 over the magnification range of the MPE-65 when using a crop camera ie f11 at 1:1 going down to F5.6 at 5:1. You can shut down the aperture about 1 stop on these settings with a FF camera and get the same DOF/diffraction softness balance.

Brian V.

1623 x 2418

EMBED PREVENTED, IMAGE TOO LARGE: https://farm1.staticfl​ickr.com/76/229014482_​8a6d88ace0_o.jpg Click here to see our image rules.

lui-même wrote in post #17853095
Did you use some sort of focusing technique? Apart from having the lens mounted on tripod. Let alone some other solid surfaces. Because f/16 at 5x is freakingly dark. You see chit. The effective aperture formula is: effective f = (M+1)*f# where M is magnification and f# is the one actually used. That goes around f/96. Pitch dark.

On my PC it is not that dark. I did these handheld, I have tried using a tripod (and for these could have). However many people don't use tripod successfully so I decided to try without.
(Also my camera once came off a tripod, hit my son who started shouting and broke the flash)

racketman wrote in post #17852940
Obviously you will get next to no depth of field when using wide apertures for best resolution so you have to take multiple images at different focal planes and then combine them in stacking software to get the depth of field.

Definetly something I need to learn how to do, do you do it handheld or with a tripod/gorillapod?

You can shoot hand held with a flash, but getting the flash close to the subject will help with specular highlights (better diffusion) and will keep the duration of the flash to a minimum (easier to freeze motion and get sharper images). Here's a shot at almost 5x and F16:

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/wyUe​Az

It is most definitely a question of taste, desired result and compromise. Working in a studio with a tripod, lighting and an inert subject, a wide aperture and stacking is a no brainer.

As regards 5x mag and not being able to see your subject, the solution is a light or strategically mounted torch.
I prefer to hunt outdoors, hand held and if I paid too much attention to the numbers I'd have nothing to show for my effort! F/14, very nearly 4X magnification, effective aperture F/67:

Snowyman wrote in post #17853481
I prefer to hunt outdoors, hand held and if I paid to much attention to the numbers I'd have nothing to show for my effort!

You and I have similar shooting styles, and like you if I pixel peeped I'd have a lot fewer images in my gallery

I wasn't quick enough composing my reply.

Good photo, what is it holding onto a plant stem? When spring and summer return I will have to try getting up early to get insects.
I don't have any problems now with seeing the subject I have a little torch attached to the flash.

Thanks all for the replies.
I will try this
"Early morning shot while the critter was still trying to get it's metabolism going. I was holding on to the flower petal with my left index finger and thumb, and resting the lens on that same hand to keep everything steady."
next time I have a go.

A lot of my best photos have been when I have had the thing on my hand as it gives a better perspective (of course for somethings not possible).