IQ on my 70d.

So, I always thought my 70d seems a little off in IQ. I just had a chance to test out my 70d vs a XSi.

These are full size images. Focus point was the C in creek.

Image #1
Image #2

All settings: 200iso, 1/160, f/8, tripod, timer set, balance set to flash, RAW saved as JPG, and Canon 24-105L.

To me it seems like the XSi is crisper.

EdATX wrote in post #17865355
So, I always thought my 70d seems a little off in IQ. I just had a chance to test out my 70d vs a XSi.

These are full size images. Focus point was the C in creek.

Image #1
Image #2

All settings: 200iso, 1/160, f/8, tripod, timer set, balance set to flash, RAW saved as JPG, and Canon 24-105L.

To me it seems like the XSi is crisper.

Is it off on all lenses, or just the 24-105?

Have you tried this via manual focus and Live View on the 70D? If you do that and get the same results, then it might be troublesome; but, if you get good results with the manual focus, then it could simply be a matter of a little bit of microadjustment with the lens on that camera is necessary. Which I suspect due to the focus looking like it landed further back, in that the "Rye" on the label at the rear of the bottle looks to be more in focus than the 'C'.

Also, the XSI shot appears a small bit underexposed compared to the 70D; shot under fluorescent lights?

PS: Fantastic taste in your bourbon, Ed!

I think you are comparing apples to chimpanzees, here.

1.) Different camera positions.
2.) 12 MP vs 20 MP
3.) Adobe applies some adjustments to raw photos. Use DPP for direct, no input conversions.
4.) Focus is not the same. Manual focus, LV & 10X would help. MFA may help.
5.) Lighting is different, though that may be the camera position.

IMHO, not a fair comparison. I do agree with your conclusion, though. The XSi does look better.

There is no mention as to which image was shot with which camera.

Img 4947 is considerably sharper overall with greater DOF. 4949 appears to have been shot at a longer focal length. 4949 is also sharper on the 100 Proof on the lower right of the label and on the dust on top of the shoulders of the bottle.

If 4947 is the XSi then I would say something is amiss with the 70D.

saea501 wrote in post #17865600
There is no mention as to which image was shot with which camera.

Img 4947 is considerably sharper overall with greater DOF. 4949 appears to have been shot at a longer focal length. 4949 is also sharper on the 100 Proof on the lower right of the label and on the dust on top of the shoulders of the bottle.

If 4947 is the XSi then I would say something is amiss with the 70D.

You need to look at the Exif data attached to each photo, the image 4949 was taken with the 70D. If you check the Exif data the shooting information for both images is almost identical. except the XSi image used spot metering. The Exif also confirms the exposure time was 1/160 second for both images and both images were taken with the same lens at 105mm at f/8. The image is very soft. I think it would take quite a bit of MFA to correct. Hopefuly that's the case. But as suggested, the OP should take the same shot using LiveView on the 70D. He should also try some different lenses to see if the problem is consistent.

Bassat wrote in post #17865453
I think you are comparing apples to chimpanzees, here.

1.) Different camera positions.
2.) 12 MP vs 20 MP
3.) Adobe applies some adjustments to raw photos. Use DPP for direct, no input conversions.
4.) Focus is not the same. Manual focus, LV & 10X would help. MFA may help.
5.) Lighting is different, though that may be the camera position.

IMHO, not a fair comparison. I do agree with your conclusion, though. The XSi does look better.

Yep, the 70D image is very very soft. I would try a different lens to see if its just an MFA issue or a defect in the body.

1) Lighting is different between the two, most likely due to cycling lights and each camera captured a different phase?

2) The focus is very different between the two, the 70D focused behind the bottle, the XSI focused at the front of the bottle.

3) If you get focus to hit the same point on both, and resize the 70D down to 4272, you will find that the 70D is at least equal to the XSI, and actually better due to better ISO handling.

So the trick here is to make sure you have consistent exposure and identical focusing in order to get the results you are expecting.

You can Live view focus on both cameras at 10X. But I'm not really sure what you're after here? You want the 70D to be sharper? The camera's differ in technology and weather sealing. Your optics make a difference, but if you are using the same lens with the same settings I'm not sure how much of a sharpness upgrade you're going to get. You do get 8 more MP's to play with and the semi pro body with higher iso abilities, video and higher shots per second.

I guess I'm missing something here. The 70D is a much better camera by far, but image sharpness may not be noticeable at only 10% difference between the 2 bodies.

Chet wrote in post #17865799
You can Live view focus on both cameras at 10X. But I'm not really sure what you're after here? You want the 70D to be sharper? The camera's differ in technology and weather sealing. Your optics make a difference, but if you are using the same lens with the same settings I'm not sure how much of a sharpness upgrade you're going to get. You do get 8 more MP's to play with and the semi pro body with higher iso abilities, video and higher shots per second.

I guess I'm missing something here.

It's not that the OP is expecting the 70D to be sharper than the XSi. If you look at the images at full resolution, the 70D image is unacceptably soft and the XSi is reasonably sharp. He indicated the 70D softness is a general trend. There is most probably either need for MFA, or there is possibly an issue with that body.

Again, focus fell behind the bottle on one, and in front of the bottle on the other. Provided the same focusing method was used the camera was on a tripod, then there could be an MFA issue. If this was handheld, even the slightest movement would have caused the focus shift.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17865862
Again, focus fell behind the bottle on one, and in front of the bottle on the other. Provided the same focusing method was used the camera was on a tripod, then there could be an MFA issue. If this was handheld, even the slightest movement would have caused the focus shift.

The OP indicated the shots were taken on a tripod, and I agree that there are a few reasons why one shot might be soft while the other is sharper, but the he also said, "I always thought my 70d seems a little off in IQ", which suggests this is not an isolated incident and is an MFA issue or a potentially more serious problem.

Manual focus for me is out, my eyes are not the greatest, I'll have to get someone else to do that.
Spot metering shouldn't matter if I am in manual mode. I need to go back though pictures from last year and look at shots from both lenses. I had to send the body in to get fixed and they replaced the sensor. Need to make sure that is not when that happened.

I did play round with the MFA, but I only went to the + side of the telephoto range, not -.

I'll get some more testing done later today or tomorrow.

Local camera shop does MFA for $38/lens. Might hit them up for that.

EdATX wrote in post #17865895
Manual focus for me is out, my eyes are not the greatest, I'll have to get someone else to do that....

Use live view and zoom in 10x. You don't need really good eyes to pull a perfect focus.

If you are back focusing, you want to use negative values. The way to think of this is "I use + value to push focus away from me, and - values to bring focus toward me". The 70D is back-focusing for that lens. I would use a -9 to -10 as as starting value.

There is no reason to pay anyone. Try these and post the results the same way you just did, and I (and others) can tell you the next tweak to the adjustment. MFA is quite easy, for those that have done it for years now, and have lots of experience with it.