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Thread started 21 Jan 2016 (Thursday) 19:37
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Thinking about lenses... cheap, or limited?

 
amckenzie4
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Jan 21, 2016 19:37 |  #1

My two most used lenses are probably the Canon 50/1.8 and the Sigma 18-125 OS. Both good lenses, both very inexpensive, by camera standards. They're supplemented by a Tamron 70-300VC, a Canon 85/1.8. The body I have now is a 60d.

Unfortunately, at some point in December the Sigma began the process of failing... right now there's an odd point at about the 20mm mark where one of the elements moves out of place with a very audible "click". It still works fine other than that, but two different camera repair people have told me that yes, it's going to get worse, and sooner or later it will stop working. That means I need to start thinking about finding a replacement.

Most of my photography recently has been functional shots of woodworking I'm doing, but I've started taking pictures of my nephews (who are, of course, unnecessarily cute). Historically, the majority of my photos have been landscape or wildlife photography, with almost no portraiture. At the moment, I'm looking at two possible paths, and I'm looking for input.

Option 1: Buy an inexpensive super-zoom (Sigma 18-250, most likely, since there's a sale on one locally) as a walk-around lens, then start saving for high quality lenses. On the plus side, it gives me a single lens that covers basically the entire range I'm likely to want, which is convenient. That would mean I could sell the 70-300 to make back a little of the cash, and still keep the primes for places where quality really counts. On the minus side, it means I'm buying a lens I basically consider disposable, since its eventual use would be places I was afraid to bring more expensive gear. That's a nice thing to have, but extends the time I have to wait before getting something high quality.

Option 2: Start buying the better lenses now. Right now it looks like I can pick up a white-box 24-105 f/4 L for around $650 on Amazon. That covers most of the range of the 18-125, and certainly the range I use most often. I'd still have the 18-125 (until it broke) if I needed the extra at the bottom, and the 70-300 if I needed more length. After that I'd look for dedicated wide angle lenses and, probably, a 70-200 L.


Obviously having better lenses is, well, better. The big question in my mind is, will I regret reducing the range of my primary walk-around lens at both ends more or less than I'll regret having a primary lens that's not as sharp or fast as it could be?


Right now I'm pretty much on the fence... has anyone else been in a similar situation? What did you decide? Why?


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gonzogolf
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Jan 21, 2016 19:48 |  #2

Superzooms are pretty awful. So if you want better images start with a better lens with less range, then get a second one when finqnces allow. But if you are happy with the softness and the really slow max apertures from the superzoom, get another. Only you can know whether you are happy with your results. Obviously my advice is bias towards a 2 (or more) lens kits.




  
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MalVeauX
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Jan 21, 2016 19:57 |  #3

Heya,

Well, there's two ways to really go and you already pointed them out. Cheap lens now. Quality lens now. A cheap lens doesn't have to be low quality. And a high quality lens doesn't have to be expensive. You just have to look at all the options. Superzooms are "ok" lenses, but they're zooms so they will not offer the quality of a prime, and on top of that, their huge focal range comes at a lot of compromises in terms of image quality. While they can do the job, and look decent, it all comes down to just how tolerant you are of it. Some of the more recent super zooms are actually not that bad! Tamron's 16-300 VC is pretty crazy, it's decently sharp, but the focal range is just nuts as it actually gets fairly wide. Or, you can just look at mid-range telehpoto zooms, like a 15-85 IS. Ideally that is the better lens. On APS-C, do you really need longer than 85mm for wood working or children? General walk around? That's pretty long. So the 15-85 would be a really great lens on APS-C for really wide to quite telephoto. I'd get that, for APS-C, any day over the 24-105L for the same purpose, just doesn't go wide enough on APS-C if you care about having a wider angle. The 18-135 STM is a very good walk around general purpose zoom for APS-C. I'd also consider that, over a 24-105L or other super zoom.

In your situation, you just have to think about what you think is more important. I would think images right now are important, just as much so as later in life, while you wait, so get good glass now. Good glass lasts and will carry a lot more into the future, than a bit of junk glass that is functional. I'd get a solid, medium tier mid-range zoom that does what you need now and just enjoy it. You have a 50mm and 85mm prime that are excellent, so it's not like you need anything else for low light or topping out sharpness or doing depth of field work, etc. You've got it. You're looking for a convenient all around general zoom.

I'd put you on (for APS-C):

Canon EF-S 15-85 IS
Canon EF-S 18-135 STM IS

Very best,


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DreDaze
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Jan 21, 2016 20:34 |  #4

i'd look at the 18-135STM if you like the range of the sigma...

sigmas have long warranties, any chance yours is still under it?


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amckenzie4
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Jan 22, 2016 15:40 as a reply to  @ DreDaze's post |  #5

Sadly, no... I've had the lens just over 5 years, so it's out of the 4 year warranty.

I like the look of the 18-135STM, but the whole "the focus ring is input for the focus motor" thing bothers me. Possibly not enough to stop me from getting it, but...


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amckenzie4
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Jan 22, 2016 15:49 as a reply to  @ MalVeauX's post |  #6

Thank you!

It's interesting... I tend to consider the range of 18-125 a medium zoom, rather than long, just because I frequently want longer than that (wild animal parks, birdwatching in Florida, things like that), and occasionally shorter. So I forget that for most people, "medium" tops out well under 100mm.

You make some good points, though: I rarely want more than about 90mm, and I can likely figure out ahead of time when I'm going to want more.


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Jan 22, 2016 18:09 |  #7

I think to most a medium range zoom is one that has a range of maybe 3× to 4× at the most. In a normal range zoom that would be an 18 to 55 maybe stretching to 18-70 for an APS-C sensor, or 24-70 for 35mm stretching to about 24-105. Anything more than a 4× zoom ratio is getting to be a large. Even the new super telephoto zooms just fall into the medium zoom category with bothe the 100-400 and the 150-600 options being a 4× zoom range.

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msowsun
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Jan 22, 2016 18:23 |  #8

amckenzie4 wrote in post #17868736 (external link)
Sadly, no... I've had the lens just over 5 years, so it's out of the 4 year warranty.

I like the look of the 18-135STM, but the whole "the focus ring is input for the focus motor" thing bothers me. Possibly not enough to stop me from getting it, but...

In auto focus you would never notice "the focus ring is input for the focus motor" thing. In manual focus there are some differences but I would much rather have focus-by-wire over cheap micro-motor AF any day.

Get the 18-135 STM. It is a great lens.


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amckenzie4
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Jan 22, 2016 20:19 as a reply to  @ msowsun's post |  #9

Good to know, and thanks! I may go see if I can try one out at one of the local camera stores.

If I'm not going with the on-sale 18-250, I likely won't buy anything this month. December was financially rough, and I could use another few paychecks to recover before I start investing in more lenses. :lol:

From what I'm hearing here, I think the decision is probably down to the 18-135 STM and the 24-105 f/4. Both will cover the parts of the range I use most, and at least one will be significantly better than what I'm using now.


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nightcat
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Jan 22, 2016 22:57 |  #10

Well, I've never been on that fence because I've always went with your option 2.... "Start buying the better lenses now". You've paid your dues with the less expensive superzooms. Purchase yourself a quality lens this time around. You may possibly, from time to time, regret reducing the range of your primary walk around lens, but your reward will be better quality photos. And that's the bottom line, right?




  
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Jan 22, 2016 23:30 |  #11

I had the Sigma 18-250mm when I was still shooting with my XSi and I loved it. It is a very slow lens, but it did its job as an all-in-one. I also liked the fact that it had a very close minimum focus distance for some fun flower shots. It doesn't actually have a great macro ability for any fine details, but it did its job. After moving to full frame, I don't think I could use a 24mm lens on crop without having something wider. Crop 24mm just isn't wide enough for my landscapes. I would also suggest an 18-135mm STM or maybe the Canon 18-200mm.

On the other hand, after buying and selling and learning and changing (and not just camera stuff) I have begun to lean towards the "buy the best you want/can afford now and don't waste money on the in between" crowd. If I know it will be a low usage thing or there is absolutely no way I can afford something better, like my Rokinon 650-1300mm POS vs a Canon 800L, then I will spend the wasteful money.


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amckenzie4
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Jan 24, 2016 12:22 |  #12

nightcat wrote in post #17869152 (external link)
Well, I've never been on that fence because I've always went with your option 2.... "Start buying the better lenses now". You've paid your dues with the less expensive superzooms. Purchase yourself a quality lens this time around. You may possibly, from time to time, regret reducing the range of your primary walk around lens, but your reward will be better quality photos. And that's the bottom line, right?


kawi_200 wrote in post #17869179 (external link)
I had the Sigma 18-250mm when I was still shooting with my XSi and I loved it. It is a very slow lens, but it did its job as an all-in-one. I also liked the fact that it had a very close minimum focus distance for some fun flower shots. It doesn't actually have a great macro ability for any fine details, but it did its job. After moving to full frame, I don't think I could use a 24mm lens on crop without having something wider. Crop 24mm just isn't wide enough for my landscapes. I would also suggest an 18-135mm STM or maybe the Canon 18-200mm.

On the other hand, after buying and selling and learning and changing (and not just camera stuff) I have begun to lean towards the "buy the best you want/can afford now and don't waste money on the in between" crowd. If I know it will be a low usage thing or there is absolutely no way I can afford something better, like my Rokinon 650-1300mm POS vs a Canon 800L, then I will spend the wasteful money.

I'm definitely leaning in the direction of the 24-105. I know I'll occasionally miss the shorter end, but I can borrow a 10-18 (I think?) from a friend for the occasional weekend for a while until I buy a wide angle of my own. After looking through a lot of my catalog in Lightroom, I don't go wider than about 25mm very often, so I'll probably be OK. And I'll still have the 18-125 until it breaks... I'm not interested in selling someone a lens that's already broken unless they have a business repairing them or something.


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gonzogolf
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Jan 24, 2016 12:34 |  #13

amckenzie4 wrote in post #17870914 (external link)
I'm definitely leaning in the direction of the 24-105. I know I'll occasionally miss the shorter end, but I can borrow a 10-18 (I think?) from a friend for the occasional weekend for a while until I buy a wide angle of my own. After looking through a lot of my catalog in Lightroom, I don't go wider than about 25mm very often, so I'll probably be OK. And I'll still have the 18-125 until it breaks... I'm not interested in selling someone a lens that's already broken unless they have a business repairing them or something.

The 24-105 on a crop camera is a bad choice. Not wide enough, and what you get on the long end isnt all that long. Although they dont have an L on the end of the name, canon has made some good lenses that serve the purpose of a walkaround lens a lot better. I know you have the wide end covered but that still means carrying an extra lens, and having to change lenes at an awkward focal length. I love my 24-105 on my FF bodies but it never gets used on the 40D.




  
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Jan 24, 2016 23:31 |  #14

amckenzie4 wrote in post #17870914 (external link)
I'm definitely leaning in the direction of the 24-105. I know I'll occasionally miss the shorter end, but I can borrow a 10-18 (I think?) from a friend for the occasional weekend for a while until I buy a wide angle of my own. After looking through a lot of my catalog in Lightroom, I don't go wider than about 25mm very often, so I'll probably be OK. And I'll still have the 18-125 until it breaks... I'm not interested in selling someone a lens that's already broken unless they have a business repairing them or something.

The 24-105 on a crop camera was a great choice - FOR ME. Not wide enough once, maybe twice, in 5 1/2 years of ownership. It is not a telephoto lens and neither is a 135mm lens. The 24-105mm focal length is a great companion with a 70-300mm lens. I would keep my 24-105mm lens if I was forced to get by with only one lens.

I agonized for days over which general purpose lens to get after purchasing my first DSLR camera. The choice was between the 17-55mm f/2.8 lens, the 24-70mm f/2.8 lens or the 24-105mm f/4 lens. I read everything like what you have read about which lens would be best as a general purpose lens on a crop camera. The final decision was based on the field of view with a 50mm lens on my 35mm SLR camera. I determined 24mm on a 1.6 crop camera would be wider than what I had used for years.

I use my 12-24mm lens for very special occasions when I need something really wide like interior real estate and conventions where there is no room to stand back from large equipment I am trying to photograph. The 18-24mm focal length is seldom, if ever, used for anything. Basically, I need something wider than 18mm if I need a wide angle shot.

YOU and only YOU can determine what lens will best fit YOUR needs. Warning: Buying one "L" lens will be the beginning of buying expensive lenses. There is only one cure for the "L" disease - buy another "L" lens.


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Jan 25, 2016 00:03 |  #15

i feel like with the release of the 18-135STM...the 24-105 on a crop doesn't make as much sense as maybe it used to...previously i had thought about getting a 24-105L to use on both my 5D and 70D...but now with the 18-135STM i just don't have the urge to do it anymore


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