Any Help WIth A New Flash?

Bonecollector wrote in post #17873982
This is what I'm getting so far... anything you would change or not get?

I wouldn't buy a flash system that is dedicated to Canon before buying, using, and knowing I'm going to keep a Canon camera. But that's just me.

Just in general, the strategy of buying things, returning, buying other stuff, returning it, etc. isn't one that people on forums like this really like to hear about--especially retailer reps. It wastes money in shipping, generates open-box merchandise the retailer takes a price hit on, and ultimately costs retailers lots of money. It hurts photographers too, because when this return load becomes more than the retailers can bear, we lose things like nice no-questions-asked return policies and get faced with short return periods and restocking fees instead. No one wants that. Your questions are all welcome, but please do make use of the information you get and take the time to make good informed purchases, in the right order, rather than losing your hard-earned money shipping things back or reselling them, or abusing return policies. It will be better for you and everyone else.

absplastic wrote in post #17873988
I wouldn't buy a flash system that is dedicated to Canon before buying, using, and knowing I'm going to keep a Canon camera. But that's just me..........

The YN560 wireless system is actually generic and will work on any camera. Apparently they they sell Canon and Nikon versions only because the respective unit can "wake-up" the flash if it goes to sleep.

I appreciate everything you wrote... just to be clear...

I purchased a traded in a ball head for a Sony flash, it didn't do what I was looking for so I sent it back in exchange for another flash.
First I was going to buy a canon flash, but I didn't place the order, I changed to the above mentioned flash and purchased it along with 4 other items totaling to over $400. Which is more than what I originally spent, but I'm still happy with the order.

So Adorama got more money than they would have originally, I only sent one item back, but spent more money so It's worth it for them.

I'm not planning on returning the gear, I don't buy stuff try it out and return it. However if I get the equipment and it doesn't work as advertized, how I want it to or I feel it's made cheaply and am not satisfied, i will return it or sell it. I never hope to have to return stuff and avoid doing so, but if needed I will. (I'm usually so busy that things I plan to return I wait too long and have to keep them

I also bought 2 PocketWizard Plus III off ebay, that I'm going to try to resell rather than try to return it, because it wasn't a company, it was just a seller, and it was no fault on their side.

I returned the sony because I thought for $550.00 it would do what Nikon and Canon flashes do. It wasn't really my fault of Adorama's fault. But I decided to return the item and exchange it.

Hope this makes you feel better... Thanks for all the help everybody!

Any other suggestions are much appreciated! After getting the gear I'll try to learn and if need help will come back here! Hope it all works well!


Thanks again,
Seth

msowsun wrote in post #17874047
The YN560 wireless system is actually generic and will work on any camera. Apparently they they sell Canon and Nikon versions only because the respective unit can "wake-up" the flash if it goes to sleep.

I understand that it will work, I was just trying to point out that it lacks key functionality compared to all the other options the OP has considered, like the ability to do E-TTL or HSS. I use my Canon speedlites as manual off-camera lights, but I also use them on-camera in casual settings utilizing both E-TTL and HSS extensively. The YN560 is compatible with everything because it doesn't need to "talk" to the camera and get things like aperture, shutterspeed, HSS pre-signal, etc. it's just a dumb trigger, all-manual flash.

Sony's flash will do E-TTL and HSS with the Sony body, Canon's will do the same with a Canon body, and Phottix's flashes can do E-TTL and HSS on-camera with whichever brand they are labeled, and off-camera with either (with the Canon and Sony flavor Odin transmitters) regardless of the label.

I'm new here, so I guess people will get me know me more over time, but I was enjoying this thread so wanted to jump straight in ....

Getting back to one of the earliest points, when the OP was talking about the distance indication on a TTL flash (as described in Bryan Peterson's book) ...
I believe that there is one automatic flash exposure mode that this distance indication will work even off-camera, and that is 'Auto-Thyristor' mode.
Because this mode makes distance and power calculations based on the ISO and aperture information input directly by the user onto the flash control panel itself, it does not require the communication through the hot-shoe to get this information from the camera. It is an older mode of course, but some fairly modern units still offer it, even alongside the more modern Digital TTL modes .... my Pentax AF-540FGZ does, and I think some Metz models as well ?

I think the distance (and range for TTL) readouts are a useful aid, but it depends on finding the right practical workflow to use them. It can be helpful for assessing subject placement I guess, and some mental factoring of extra stops or power needed depending on bounce angles could work.

Anyway, its been a good thread and I hope that you enjoy starting to work with your new flash equipment Seth .... I think it is clear that there will be plenty of good quality help and advice available right here when you need it .

Nigel

Thank you for that information... I got most of the equipment yesterday and have been learning and practicing with it today.


Any learning tips are appreciated. And if you have any unique way of learning/memorizing how to calculate it all (iso, f stop, shutter speed etc.) that's also much appreciated.

Seth

McGregNi wrote in post #17879541
I'm new here, so I guess people will get me know me more over time, but I was enjoying this thread so wanted to jump straight in ....

Getting back to one of the earliest points, when the OP was talking about the distance indication on a TTL flash (as described in Bryan Peterson's book) ...
I believe that there is one automatic flash exposure mode that this distance indication will work even off-camera, and that is 'Auto-Thyristor' mode.
Because this mode makes distance and power calculations based on the ISO and aperture information input directly by the user onto the flash control panel itself, it does not require the communication through the hot-shoe to get this information from the camera. It is an older mode of course, but some fairly modern units still offer it, even alongside the more modern Digital TTL modes .... my Pentax AF-540FGZ does, and I think some Metz models as well ?

I think the distance (and range for TTL) readouts are a useful aid, but it depends on finding the right practical workflow to use them. It can be helpful for assessing subject placement I guess, and some mental factoring of extra stops or power needed depending on bounce angles could work.

Anyway, its been a good thread and I hope that you enjoy starting to work with your new flash equipment Seth .... I think it is clear that there will be plenty of good quality help and advice available right here when you need it .

Nigel

Auto thyrister worked by mesauring the light coming back into a sensor, often on front of the flash and when enough light reached the sensor for a predetermined exposure the flash turned off. Unless you are speaking of some other variant of thyrister technology there was no distance calculation, or any calculation at really other than the amount of light hitting the sensor.

No, of course not on older flashes without the digital displays .... I assume its limited to those digital era flashes that offer the 'Auto-Thyristor' mode alongside a modern TTL mode, such as the models I mentioned. Knowing the ISO and aperture allows the flash to calculate its possible range of correct exposure and show that as a nearest and farthest figure, and as its set on the flash directly then there's no requirement for the on-camera communication through the hotshoe. But I accept, it may be a limited functioning on a small number of flashes.

Again auto thrister bypasses all that.

Auto thyristor flashes use a photosensor to measure 'enough light'...the thyristor recycles unused power so it is not wasted. It is the photosensor that does the determination of WHEN to divert electricity thru the thyristor back to the charge capacitor (recycled power).

Even an old 'dial only' analog calculator featured display of minimum and maximum distances that the flash could control its output, for a given f/stop...analog calculator dial did what the digital display does today. The digital display also easily displays what happens to min-max distance when the zoom head of the flash is set to a different FL setting.

When in ETTL mode, most digital displays show the Max distance that the flash can reach, at the current ISO and f/stop set on the ETTL camera.

To the OP, the Metz flashes are customizable and adaptable...I can use a single Metz flash on my Olympus OM, on my Bronica medium format, and on my Canon dSLR -- all via the use of what are called SCA-3000 'personality' modules. The benefit is that if you decide to supplement with a Sony or change over to Sony, and then to a Nikon, you can simply get the appropriate control module to interface with the camera and make it look and behave like a (brand)-dedicated flash!
My Metz can be a Manual flash, a reliable and consistent film TTL flash, a very acurate Auto photosensor 'thyristor' flash, or an ETTL flash (with all the ETTL flaws), all with a push of a switch; or become Sony-compatible or Nikon-compatible with the change of a module!

Metz also does make Canon-only dedicated flash units comparable to Canon ETTL flash, but these cannot be altered to dedicate to other brands.

I set up my Pentax AF-540FGZ on its stand, set to 'Auto' A Flash Exposure Mode mode, in Wireless Slave Mode, and took a few test shots (using the camera Pop-Up flash as wireless trigger).

Here are a couple of shots of the flash control display .....

Firstly you can see the A Mode, (Auto Thyristor) with ISO 100, F8.0 and 19mm zoom. These are all set directly on the flash (which is off camera) and bear no relation to the camera settings. Underneath is the Flash Range indication, with the bars showing a range of 0.7 - 4.0m, this being the distance over which the flash could produce a good exposure with those ISO, aperture and zoom settings.

The next shot shows the aperture changed to F2.8, and the corresponding range indication changes to 1.5 - 12m, reflecting the 3 stops more power available.

I fired a few test shots and the exposures were spot on. Exposure control in this mode is by the traditional method of creating an artificial off-set between the camera and flash settings .... eg, if the camera is set to F8, then setting the flash to f5.6 will produce an exposure 1 stop darker. Or you can tweak the ISO settings in the same sort of way to 'trick' the flash into emitting the exposure you want.

I must admit I had assumed that this sort of feature was fairly standard on dedicated TTL models that offered the Auto mode .... I'm not familiar with Canon or Nikon flashes, but I thought they worked in the same manner ... not so sure now .... ?

in any case, the key to successful use of the range and distance indications is really about finding a practical workflow approach. Bryan Petersen says that he uses the distance indications to place the flash at the correct distance, given the other setting requirements, and then makes educated judgements about how much more to add for any diffuser or bounce situations.

Those distances are a projected range but not any sort of calculation taken Into account of other factors.

In the book Understanding Flash Photography: How to Shoot Great Photographs Using Electronic Flash by Bryan Peterson,
he used the Manual mode distance scale to show how to set the correct aperture for a given distance and ISO.

This only works if the flash is on the camera with the flash head pointed straight ahead. It was just an exercise in learning how to use manual flash and serves no real purpose in my opinion.

http://www.amazon.com …-Electronic/dp/08174395​60

Well the 'range' indication is the flash telling us what is the maximum and minimum distance that it can correctly expose a subject given the ISO, Aperture and Zoom settings .... these settings are the user telling it what the camera has set. In 'Auto' Wireless mode there is no communication of this information at all between the camera and flash .... it has to be manually input.

In Manual Wireless mode then the indication changes to a single distance unit .... eg '4m', not a range, and this takes account also of the actual manual power setting on the flash (1/16, 1/64 etc). So the indications are responding exactly to the ISO, Aperture and Zoom inputs from the user.

Of course, in Auto mode (which uses the light sensor on the flash to judge the final output based on reflected light) it is up to the user to either set the exact same settings on the camera, or 'trick' the flash into outputting a different amount of light in order to control the exposure as needed.

I just saw your post come in msowsun .... I think Peterson uses it for practical flash and subject placement, or power tweaks if the distances are fixed. I accept though that someone has to find a particular workflow approach to build it into to make it helpful, but if you can do that then it is a very accurate and efficient way to get your flash exposures spot on first time.

I was just really making the point that I find it interesting that my 'auto-thryster' mode on my Pentax unit can still give the range and distance indications even off-camera .... precisely because the calculations are performed by the flash based on the directly input settings, and do not depend on any camera to flash communication.

McGregNi wrote in post #17880531
...............

I was just really making the point that I find it interesting that my 'auto-thryster' mode on my Pentax unit can still give the range and distance indications even off-camera .... precisely because the calculations are performed by the flash based on the directly input settings, and do not depend on any camera to flash communication.

The reason your Pentax can do it is because in addition to TTL metering it also has external flash auto-thryster sensor mode. The Canon 680EX II and 600EX-RT also have an external flash auto-thryster mode in addition to the modern TTL auto flash.

All older film era auto flash units worked this way and most had some sort of an ISO/aperture/distance scale.