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Thread started 27 Jan 2016 (Wednesday) 18:01
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What makes a photographer when everyone is taking pictures

 
welshwizard1971
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Jul 23, 2016 14:46 |  #331

jay125 wrote in post #18075392 (external link)
I used the word egregious yesterday. Only one person in my office knew what it meant. One actually thought it referred to eggs.
What are they teaching kids these days in college?

Used the word Bailiwick this week in front of a bunch of lawyers, nothing, not one of 'em...............

It's now my favourite word :)


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Jul 23, 2016 15:20 |  #332

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18075405 (external link)
If you look thru many of my posts, you will see that I typically will not use acronyms such as BTW or IMHO.

That's perfectly reasonable though, as these aren't pronounceable acronyms (like radar or laser) that have been adopted as words used in spoken English. These are a form of shorthand for informal text messaging, which is often done from devices where typing isn't quick and easy. I have no issue with people pushing back against "chat speak" being used outside the context of text messaging. But this is an entirely different case linguistically from the origins of cosplay as a word.


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Jul 23, 2016 15:21 |  #333

absplastic wrote in post #18075351 (external link)
...Every language in the world gains new words continuously, and many are portmanteaux. Naturally new words are not always understood the first time you encounter them, but you'd have to have no capacity to learn to continually need them explicitly spelled out.

I've been around a while & also didn't know what cosplay referred to .

It's considered good form to use a relatively new term with a reference the first time it's used, like "cosplay (costume play)", or "cosplay*" with the definition at the end of the text or page. Otherwise a person runs the risk of being thought a EDH*.

*EDH
Elitist D... Head. The 2nd word is not spelled out to conform with the Forum Rules. ; )


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Jul 23, 2016 15:26 |  #334

PhotosGuy wrote in post #18075451 (external link)
I've been around a while & also didn't know what cosplay referred to .

It's considered good form to use a relatively new term with a reference the first time it's used, like "cosplay (costume play)", or "cosplay*" with the definition at the end of the text or page. Otherwise a person runs the risk of being thought a EDH*.

*EDH
Elitist D... Head. The 2nd word is not spelled out to conform with the Forum Rules. ; )



Appreciate the quick reference. I was going a completely different way with EDH. Also not in compliance with Forum Rules. ;-)a



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Jul 23, 2016 15:36 |  #335

So, back to the topic. Are all the people with cell phones recording the graphic violence in the world lately not photographers, videographers, or photojournalists?

This might have been said previously, but a person who uses a camera is a photographer in as much a person who gardens is a gardener and a person who fishes is a fisherman. To add the word "professional" is to designate that the person does so as a means of making a living. So whether you shoot a lego camera, an iPhone or android, or a Hassie, you're a photographer. If you are paying your bills with it, you're a professional photographer. Professional=money=Occ​upation.

Does being a professional photographer make you a great photographer? We all know the answer to that...



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absplastic
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Jul 23, 2016 15:40 |  #336

PhotosGuy wrote in post #18075451 (external link)
I've been around a while & also didn't know what cosplay referred to .

It's considered good form to use a relatively new term with a reference the first time it's used, like "cosplay (costume play)", or "cosplay*" with the definition at the end of the text or page. Otherwise a person runs the risk of being thought a EDH*.

That's the norm for a formal publication, but it's also arguably good forum etiquette to Google a word you don't know, rather than sidetrack a discussion asking for a definition in a reply, for a word that might not be confusing anyone else. It would get old really quickly if people were always erring on the side of verbosely inlining or footnoting definitions for words in forum posts as if each post were a technical journal publication. Cosplay is also not a new word, it was coined in the 80s, it's just a word only commonly used by a few interest groups.


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Jul 23, 2016 15:50 |  #337

absplastic wrote in post #18075462 (external link)
... it's just a word only commonly used by a few interest groups.

Which was my point.


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Jul 23, 2016 16:13 |  #338

With regards to the term 'snapshot', I feel that there is some rather interesting properties of language history now embedded with that word.

These days there are many people who see a highly negative connotation to the word snapshot. I've seen tons of people online use phrases like "That photo is just a snapshot", and you can really see a horribly biased elitism dripping from how many use the term these days.

If we dig back through the history of language we'll find that 'snapshot' originally had zero negative aspects to it. It wasn't a good thing, or a bad thing, it was a description of how you did an action.

A hunter took a shot. What kind of shot was it? It was a quick, mostly reflexive, shot at a target that suddenly appeared. Is that a bad thing in and of itself? Well... That really rather depends. Did the hunter hit the target? Does the hunter have a history of consistently hitting a target with a snapshot? Snapshots were actually kind of an impressive thing if you hit the target with them.

However the term morphed and changed over time as it began to be applied to photography. I'm really not sure when it started to be applied to photos, but I want to say that the mid 20's would be the first I've seen documented use of the phrasing, but might have been 30s. Need to go digging for that book, but the text was along the lines of the photographer being surprised by something but still managing to get a shot off. It wasn't a perfect shot in the traditional sense, but the haste and visual motion within the image had a value of its own.


At some point along the way some group of photographers apparently began to look down their noses at the entire idea of quickly taking a photo. You're not a "real" photographer if you're taking 'snapshots'. "Real" photographers plan their shots, and [Insert long string of general stereotypical so called 'artistic' BS here].


A photographer: Someone who takes photos.
At this point in life I'm left with the belief that anyone who tries to more narrowly define the word is doing so merely to be part of a group of like minded people seeking to wall themselves off as somehow distinct from others. Probably standing in a circle of some manner, and most likely engaging in some action, metaphorically or otherwise, that is best left unsaid.

As for the issue of language evolution in general, with new words being used and old words falling out of favour, I've sadly misplaced my favourite reply to such ideas. It was a less than polite phrase about the unchristian things someone could go do to themselves if they had an issue with language evolving over time, written out in very archaic English. (As in still arguably "English", but also old enough to make the original text of Beowulf feel modern. An English lit prof had a great time helping me translate that one evening.)


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Jul 23, 2016 16:45 |  #339

This was a rushed snapshot from this morning to grab him in the sunbeam, not bad for a 'snapshot'....

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Jul 23, 2016 19:17 |  #340

Judging the quality of a snapshot/stellar photograph/phone internet image is akin to identifying a camera/lens used in a print...
a sheer exercise in futility. A photographer knows is his stuff is good and prints the same...a snapshooter merely keeps it on his hard drive.


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Jul 23, 2016 20:56 as a reply to  @ PhotosGuy's post |  #341

You meant Elitist Dork Head, right?

Those growing up with thumb texting think everyone knows what every acronym means...they invent new ones to add to the long list of BMW control modules that all have 3-letter acronyms, and expect the BMW veteran owners to simply know!


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Jul 23, 2016 21:06 |  #342

Wilt wrote in post #18075709 (external link)
You meant Elitist Dork Head, right?

No, but it will do! "K" is one of the letters. ; )


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Jul 23, 2016 23:09 |  #343

PhotosGuy wrote in post #18075720 (external link)
No, but it will do! "K" is one of the letters. ; )

Oh, ha ha, I think I got it now. Now that you mention it, they do all have an elitist smirk on their bills.

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Jul 24, 2016 00:51 |  #344

This is an age old argument that always gets people riled up. What a lot of people tend to dismiss is the word photography / photographer is a broad term that encompasses too many levels, styles and techniques. Likewise most people here are arguing the point using similar broad terms to qualify their logic (writer, driver, artist, etc.)

Let's see how this argument holds up; "I'm here to admit that I firmly believe there is a difference between a witter and someone who just authors a book. One cannot simply author a single great book and consider themselves a writer, you have to be able to repeat the process again and again. Then, fully realizing what you have done before, apply your past experience to what you are aiming to do with the next book, and create something new."

How about this one; "I'm here to admit that I firmly believe there is a difference between an artist and someone who just draws an illustration. One cannot simply draw a single great illustration and consider themselves an artist, you have to be able to repeat the process again and again. Then, fully realizing what you have done before, apply your past experience to what you are aiming to do with the next drawing, and create something new."

The inherent problem with all these arguments is that it is forcing a singular definition onto a broad term while at the same time dismissing any other possibility. The argument falls apart not by what it is trying to define but by what it is excluding.

The definition of a photographer is "a person who takes photographs, especially one who practices photography professionally." However, the definition does not make the term exclusive to a photography professional. The other part of the argument being overlooked is that the etymology of the term is currently being redefined. Language is a living structure and changes according to social needs and changing technologies. Today's technology of image making has allowed everyone to be able to capture images digitally, therefore, by the true sense of the term, everyone is a photographer, one who takes photographs. Where the differences lie is in the qualifiers attached to the broad term. Art photographer, amateur photographer, casual photographer. How about good photography or bad photography.

The camera is a tool, much like a pencil is a tool and a brush is a tool. Owning these things does not inherently make one a photographer, writer or artist. However, once those tools are used, regardless of skill level, to create something (usually of value to someone) then that person becomes a photographer, writer or artist. Again, qualifiers will let others know to what skill level or discipline they are within those vocations.

Need some examples? the previous example of Van Gogh was a great one. Vivian Maier would be another. She was a nanny. She took "snapshots" (according to previously defined terms within this thread) that were tossed into a shoebox never to see the light of day. After her death they were discovered and now she is lauded as a great photographer. The thing is, by virtue of the definition, she was a photographer when she created those "snapshots", not a nanny. Being a nanny defined her job when tending her employer's children. The act of using a camera to record an image gave her the very broad and very loose title of photographer. However, she was not a pro photographer. She was not a photojournalist or an art photographer. By another definition she was a documentarian who utilized a camera (the tool) to record her surroundings and the people she encountered, ergo a street photographer. It's the qualifier that defines her work.

Let me backtrack here. Above I mentioned that one acquires a term (photographer, writer, artist) when one utilizes a specific set of tools and skills to create something of value. This is generally understood within the professional settings as the item of value is often of a monetary nature, however, value isn't always measured in legal tender. Ask any parent who has ever received a squiggly lined drawing from their child if that drawing has any value. Or that lumpy clay ashtray from art class, or those glued on maccarrone shell picture frames or paper mache balloon sculptures.

Ask any hobbyist photographer if their images, hanging on their wall or sitting in their computer, never seeing a dime of income don't hold any value. Or the mom or dad who take a quick, blurry image with their cell phones of their toddler at a playground. Value is subjective. Even if we don't see it that doesn't mean it's not there. Sure, that blurry picture of a five year old sliding down a slide may not garner any awards but it doesn't disqualify the person who takes a photograph as being the true definition of the word, photographer. It just makes them a lazy, undisciplined, utilitarian, observational, reflexive, one of many photographer.


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Jul 24, 2016 08:42 |  #345

The camera is a tool, much like a pencil is a tool and a brush is a tool. Owning these things does not inherently make one a photographer, writer or artist. However, once those tools are used, regardless of skill level, to create something (usually of value to someone) then that person becomes a photographer, writer or artist. Again, qualifiers will let others know to what skill level or discipline they are within those vocations.

Nice try, but I have a problem with this. I have used a hammer & nails but would no way consider myself a carpenter, no matter what qualification was used. Maybe "Someone who occasionally butchers a piece of wood?"
And while I raced for 10 years, won consistently & built my own motors, nobody that I know would consider calling myself a mechanic. So I think the respective definitions need some more refinement.


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