EF and EFS, FF, Crop camera

DreDaze wrote in post #17881474
if you've never used a FF or film camera, just don't bother thinking about crop factor, or any of the math involved...there's no benefit...look thru your lenses and determine where you want to stand/frame up...don't use an app

That, right there, all day long!!!!

If you used to shoot 35mm film or digital "full frame" and understand the field of view of different focal lengths then you can worry about equivalent fov for crop sensors.

If you never shot film/full frame then don't worry about equivalent fov. just shoot at the focal length you need. If you want to switch to full frame later and want to figure out what focal length you need to get the fov you like then you can start doing the math. But first you need to know what fov you like to begin with. So stop multiplying and go shoot!

gremlin75 wrote in post #17881707
That, right there, all day long!!!!

If you used to shoot 35mm film or digital "full frame" and understand the field of view of different focal lengths then you can worry about equivalent fov for crop sensors.

If you never shot film/full frame then don't worry about equivalent fov. just shoot at the focal length you need. If you want to switch to full frame later and want to figure out what focal length you need to get the fov you like then you can start doing the math. But first you need to know what fov you like to begin with. So stop multiplying and go shoot!

^ The very best way to confuse yourself is to use crop factor arithmetic!

gremlin75 wrote in post #17881707
That, right there, all day long!!!!

If you used to shoot 35mm film or digital "full frame" and understand the field of view of different focal lengths then you can worry about equivalent fov for crop sensors.

If you never shot film/full frame then don't worry about equivalent fov. just shoot at the focal length you need. If you want to switch to full frame later and want to figure out what focal length you need to get the fov you like then you can start doing the math. But first you need to know what fov you like to begin with. So stop multiplying and go shoot!

Agreed - less math and more shooting and getting experience.

I see now that if I don't have a FF camera then I don't need to even think crop factors, but if I did have a FF camera and my T3i I could use the information to work between the 2 cameras.
In one of the videos it said something about magnification on the crop sensor, that in reality it doesn't exist.

I'm going to take you guys advice and not worry about crop factors , I think what lens is required for the occasion is something more important for me than FF cameras and crop factors.

Thanks to you all you are awesome.
Don

DigitalDon wrote in post #17881949
I see now that if I don't have a FF camera then I don't need to even think crop factors, but if I did have a FF camera and my T3i I could use the information to work between the 2 cameras.
In one of the videos it said something about magnification on the crop sensor, that in reality it doesn't exist.

I'm going to take you guys advice and not worry about crop factors , I think what lens is required for the occasion is something more important for me than FF cameras and crop factors.

Thanks to you all you are awesome.
Don

The crop factor and all of this math is something you will NEVER need to think about. I use full frame, aps-h, and apc-c bodie, with a closet full of ef and efs lenses. The only thing I EVER need to think about is that efs lenses only work on apsc bodies. I have never tried to shoot two cameras AT THE SAME TIME. I have carried two with me, but only actually shoot one at a time. When doing so, I look through the lens I have mounted. That is the one I am concerned about at the moment. Forget crop factors. You'll drive yourself nuts. For no reason.

DigitalDon wrote in post #17881949
I see now that if I don't have a FF camera then I don't need to even think crop factors, but if I did have a FF camera and my T3i I could use the information to work between the 2 cameras.
In one of the videos it said something about magnification on the crop sensor, that in reality it doesn't exist.

I'm going to take you guys advice and not worry about crop factors , I think what lens is required for the occasion is something more important for me than FF cameras and crop factors.

Thanks to you all you are awesome.
Don

Magnification is another one of those things that people confuse, so it's best ignored.

For the record, magnification means the size of the subject on the sensor relative to its real size. It is used in macro (closeup) photography. But there is an alternate meaning, which is completely different. And that is the size of the image with a particular lens relative to the size of the image with a so-called "normal" lens ... and often we don't know exactly what a normal lens is. I don't think it is good to have two quite different definitions for the same word. It is confusing.

Unless you are doing macro photography, ignore "magnification".

Archibald wrote in post #17882044
Magnification is another one of those things that people confuse, so it's best ignored.

For the record, magnification means the size of the subject on the sensor relative to its real size. It is used in macro (closeup) photography. But there is an alternate meaning, which is completely different. And that is the size of the image with a particular lens relative to the size of the image with a so-called "normal" lens ... and often we don't know exactly what a normal lens is. I don't think it is good to have two quite different definitions for the same word. It is confusing.

Unless you are doing macro photography, ignore "magnification".

I think that you might actually be referring to the Viewfinder magnification. That is the optical magnification that you see when looking through the optical viewfinder (does not apply when using Live View) with a specified lens, set at a specified focal distance. The usual lens that is specified for the VF magnification is a 50mm lens focused at infinity (the focused at infinity is important, the magnification will change for any other focused distance), you also have to have the VF diopter adjustment set to -1m this is true for all DSLR cameras that are derived from 35mm film SLR's, it is the same for both APS-C and 35mm format digital sensors. The VF magnification varies by camera model. The higher model lines usually have a higher VF magnification. VF magnification values tend to run from about 0.75× up to 1×. The 7D for example has a 1× magnification VF that shows 100% of the sensor image area. Rebel series cameras can be as low as 0.75× magnification and only show about 90% to 95% of the total sensor view. My 50D has a 95% view, 0.95× viewfinder.

The only thing this is really useful for is if you want to use your camera like a pair of binoculars as it will give you the visible magnification. For something like the 7D with it's 1× magnification @50mm a 600mm lens would give a visible magnification of 12× (600/50). When I put my 600mm lens on my 50D the magnification seen in the VF becomes 11.4× ((600/50)*0.95). A Rebel with a 0.75× magnification would get 9×. Remember this only applies while looking through the optical viewfinder, and when the lens is focused at infinity. It doesn't apply to the sensor, or any image recorded by the sensor.

As everybody else has said this can generally be completely ignored.

Alan

Bassat wrote in post #17881976
The crop factor and all of this math is something you will NEVER need to think about. I use full frame, aps-h, and apc-c bodie, with a closet full of ef and efs lenses. The only thing I EVER need to think about is that efs lenses only work on apsc bodies. I have never tried to shoot two cameras AT THE SAME TIME. I have carried two with me, but only actually shoot one at a time. When doing so, I look through the lens I have mounted. That is the one I am concerned about at the moment. Forget crop factors. You'll drive yourself nuts. For no reason.

I agree to some extent. The only time these factors really come into play, IMO, is if/when you change formats, and you want to take stock of what lenses and focal lengths you are shooting with. Also, if you end up buying other formats, or even some of the high end point and shoots or bridge cameras, you will get the 35mm equivalent specs of the lenses of those cameras, and if you are shooting with APS-C or APS-H, you will probably again want to compare now to later.

Finally the last place you might be needing this info is if you shoot primes. If you have zooms, you just make sure you have no large gaps and you should be good on any format. Shoot primes, and you may have to do the conversions.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17882285
I agree to some extent. The only time these factors really come into play, IMO, is if/when you change formats, and you want to take stock of what lenses and focal lengths you are shooting with. Also, if you end up buying other formats, or even some of the high end point and shoots or bridge cameras, you will get the 35mm equivalent specs of the lenses of those cameras, and if you are shooting with APS-C or APS-H, you will probably again want to compare now to later.

Finally the last place you might be needing this info is if you shoot primes. If you have zooms, you just make sure you have no large gaps and you should be good on any format. Shoot primes, and you may have to do the conversions.

Certainly a fair assessment. I guess I don't need to think much about crop factor conversions because I don't use the primes on apsc. My most used EF lenses on apsc are 70-200 and 100-400. Other than that, I stick to the efs lenses. Why bother with thinking conversion factors for using a prime on apsc when I can just grab a longer prime for the 6D? I mean, if I have a choice between 85 1.8 on apsc and 135L on FF, I'll grab the 6D/135L every time. The difference in FOV between apsh and FF isn't really an issue, and on top of that, both are EF-mount only.

I miss the APS-H format personally. It was a great compromise between FF and crop.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17882399
I miss the APS-H format personally. It was a great compromise between FF and crop.

A clean-looking 1DIV just popped up in the sale forum. Nice price, too!

Yeah thanks!

I just spent $850 for a 150-600 C Sigma lens with dock, I am done for a while.

Bassat wrote in post #17882344
Certainly a fair assessment. I guess I don't need to think much about crop factor conversions because I don't use the primes on apsc. My most used EF lenses on apsc are 70-200 and 100-400. Other than that, I stick to the efs lenses. Why bother with thinking conversion factors for using a prime on apsc when I can just grab a longer prime for the 6D? I mean, if I have a choice between 85 1.8 on apsc and 135L on FF, I'll grab the 6D/135L every time. The difference in FOV between apsh and FF isn't really an issue, and on top of that, both are EF-mount only.

Are you saying that you think of the focal lengths of "EF" and "EF-S" lenses differently as if Canon does "crop factor" math for the focal lengths advertised for "EF-S" lenses?

Bassat wrote in post #17882418
A clean-looking 1DIV just popped up in the sale forum. Nice price, too!

I know~

SkipD wrote in post #17882468
Are you saying that you think of the focal lengths of "EF" and "EF-S" lenses differently as if Canon does "crop factor" math for the focal lengths advertised for "EF-S" lenses?

I read that 3 or 4 times and still have no idea what you are asking. Really. Several things are true, in my head anyway.

1.) My efs glass only mounts on my apsc camera.
2.) When I put EF glass on my apsc camera, I realize the FOV is different than it is on apsh or FF.
3.) I don't care about conversion factors. I only shoot the gear in my hands.

I don't understand the hoopla about conversion factors. 1.0, 1.3x, 1.6x? Who cares and why is it relevant? It affects nothing. Of course, if I put my 35 on the 6D, it presents the scene differently than it does on my 70D. Since I have the 6D/35 in my hands, who gives a FFA what any other combination of gear figures out to be. If the 35 is too short, put the 85 on. Or the 70-200. How is any of that influenced by a crop factor?

Similarly, if my 18-55 is too long for a shot, I just grab the 11-20. The mental mumbo-jumbo about crop factors and conversion factors is meaningless. Well, to me anyway. I suppose some folks in that situation would grab a pencil and paper and calculate: 135mm x 1.6 = 216. NOPE! That lens is too long. Let me calculate the 100-400. HMM? Nope. Which lens should I use? Hey numnutz! Just grab a wider lens.