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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 01 Feb 2016 (Monday) 01:01
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Official specs: Canon EOS-1D X Mark II

 
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David ­ Arbogast
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Mar 18, 2016 17:10 |  #1201

idkdc wrote in post #17939941 (external link)
You should buy one for the 4k video you may or may not ever use. :D. Say, semi-speaking-of-which, where did your A7rii go in your sig?

Wow, you're observant! I literally just put the a7R II up for sale moments ago. Really tough choice; love the camera, but I'm going to stick with the 5DS R.

On the plus side, I added the TS-E 17mm back in the bag.


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Sony α7R II | CV 12mm, FE 12-24mm, Loxia 21mm, Loxia 35mm, Sigma 35mm F/1.2, Loxia 85mm, Batis 85mm, Batis 135mm

  
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Mar 18, 2016 17:14 |  #1202

idkdc wrote in post #17939941 (external link)
Say, semi-speaking-of-which, where did your A7rii go in your sig?

He sold it to help fund his upcoming Canon 1D X Mark II! :lol:

Bryan


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idkdc
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Post edited over 3 years ago by idkdc. (4 edits in all)
     
Mar 18, 2016 17:33 |  #1203

David Arbogast wrote in post #17939958 (external link)
Wow, you're observant! I literally just put the a7R II up for sale moments ago. Really tough choice; love the camera, but I'm going to stick with the 5DS R.

On the plus side, I added the TS-E 17mm back in the bag.

Hehe. Was it the adaptor+TS-E flaring that did it in? http://youtu.be/CsxhMA​nglaE (external link).


Nikon Z7 / D850 | Canon C200 / 1DXII | Fujifilm XT2

  
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David ­ Arbogast
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Mar 18, 2016 17:48 |  #1204

idkdc wrote in post #17939983 (external link)
Hehe. Was it the adaptor+TS-E flaring that did it in? http://youtu.be/CsxhMA​nglaE (external link).

Yeah, the bad performance of the TS-Es on the a7 series really helped me decide which of the two to go with. Canon customer service via CPS was another factor.


David | Flickr (external link)
Sony α7R II | CV 12mm, FE 12-24mm, Loxia 21mm, Loxia 35mm, Sigma 35mm F/1.2, Loxia 85mm, Batis 85mm, Batis 135mm

  
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thenextguy
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Mar 18, 2016 17:50 |  #1205

David Arbogast wrote in post #17939958 (external link)
Wow, you're observant! I literally just put the a7R II up for sale moments ago. Really tough choice; love the camera, but I'm going to stick with the 5DS R.

Interesting. I'm very close to selling mine, too. What were your reasons?

Edit: Whoops. Just saw your post above. Anything else?


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David ­ Arbogast
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Mar 18, 2016 18:11 |  #1206

thenextguy wrote in post #17940001 (external link)
Interesting. I'm very close to selling mine, too. What were your reasons?

Edit: Whoops. Just saw your post above. Anything else?

Main reason was that I had both, but wanted to fund new lenses, so one of them had to go. Both are exceptional cameras for my travel, architecture, street, and landscape uses, so it mainly came down to the TS-Es.

Another significant factor was some concern about service. I'm not saying Sony is bad, but they outsource their service and many complain about it. Since I'm on CPS I have access to both excellent and speedy service.

Anyway, it's an awesome camera and I will definitely miss it. Happily the 5DS R is also an awesome camera - very happy with it. :)

To Bryan's joke above, I did do some daydreaming about selling both to get the 1DX II, but I really do need the 50.6 MP, so that's really out. I just sold a 53" wide print from my old 5D III - really really wish I had had 50.6 MP when that shot was taken!


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Sony α7R II | CV 12mm, FE 12-24mm, Loxia 21mm, Loxia 35mm, Sigma 35mm F/1.2, Loxia 85mm, Batis 85mm, Batis 135mm

  
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idkdc
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Mar 18, 2016 18:14 |  #1207

David Arbogast wrote in post #17940025 (external link)
Main reason was that I had both, but wanted to fund new lenses, so one of them had to go. Both are exceptional cameras for my travel, architecture, street, and landscape uses, so it mainly came down to the TS-Es.

Another significant factor was some concern about service. I'm not saying Sony is bad, but they outsource their service and many complain about it. Since I'm on CPS I have access to both excellent and speedy service.

Anyway, it's an awesome camera and I will definitely miss it. Happily the 5DS R is also an awesome camera - very happy with it. :)

Yeah, CPS and having a repair center close by are what keep me from investing into the Sony A7 system. I've fancied it in the past, but I decided I'd let others experiment with their wallets first! :D


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David ­ Arbogast
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Mar 18, 2016 18:21 |  #1208

idkdc wrote in post #17940029 (external link)
Yeah, CPS and having a repair center close by are what keep me from "investing" into the Sony system.

I had started to; had started buying native Sony lenses, then I saw one of Roger Cicala's famous lens tear-downs (FE 24-70mm) and he found parts glued together. He expressed durability concerns. So, I abruptly switched directions and quickly sold off my Sony lenses.

Meanwhile, Roger did a teardown of the 35L II; finds it the most well-made impressively engineered lens he's ever seen. It's a great feeling knowing my lenses are built to last. :)

Roger's comment on the Sony lens: (external link)

"The apparently stupid parts are pretty obvious, too. This lens seems beautifully designed for easy reparability, and I can think of no reason it’s more expensive to repair than similar lenses from other brands. Charging such high prices is going to alienate customers pretty quickly. It’s not too hard to get new customers, but it’s almost impossible to regain a lost customer.

I would add that glue applied to smooth surfaces is unlikely to hold up forever on a frequently moving part where the force of movement is across the axis of the glue. A tiny notch or clamp from the plastic mount to the coil would have created a much more robust connection and not cost a dime if someone had simply designed it properly in the first place. So much of the lens is so thoughtfully engineered that it’s a shame such a critical connection apparently was engineered as an afterthought."


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idkdc
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Mar 18, 2016 18:34 |  #1209

David Arbogast wrote in post #17940033 (external link)
I had started to; had started buying native Sony lenses, then I saw one of Roger Cicala's famous lens tear-downs (FE 24-70mm) and he found parts glued together. So, I abruptly switched directions and quickly sold off my Sony lenses.

Interesting, that one slipped my radar. That's certainly another nail in the coffin.

Meanwhile, Roger did a teardown of the 35L II; finds it the most well-made impressively engineered lens he's ever seen. It's a great feeling knowing my lenses are built to last. :)

Yeah, that I did read! I think they built it the same as their Mark II supertele's. Worth every penny, Sigma-swear-by-ers be damned. :) (speaking as an ex-Sigma-swear-by-er)


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JeffreyG
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Mar 18, 2016 20:18 |  #1210

No idea on Sony reliability, but I'll chime in to note that Roger has been finding all of the latest Canon stuff to be built well beyond expectations from the past. New bodies like the 7D2 and new lenses like the 24-70 II and 100-400 II are about the best made stuff he has seen. That end of the business is looking very nice these days.


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Mar 18, 2016 22:51 |  #1211

Another large detractor from Sony is the 'throw-away mentality' with rate of new arrivals and the coupled depreciation rate.
The irony/crux is that I've never seen a sensor do what the A7Rii sensor can do; and I've already stated my hope that the 1DXii
sensor is Sony influenced at the least.


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Mar 19, 2016 06:04 |  #1212

JeffreyG wrote in post #17940143 (external link)
No idea on Sony reliability, but I'll chime in to note that Roger has been finding all of the latest Canon stuff to be built well beyond expectations from the past. New bodies like the 7D2 and new lenses like the 24-70 II and 100-400 II are about the best made stuff he has seen. That end of the business is looking very nice these days.

I didn't want to sound a bit fanboy, but yes, he does seem to be putting forward some very good evidence that the recent Canon (high end) kit is very well built. I also like the fact he can test multiple copies of a lens against multiple copies of another, to account for sample variation. It's a very "no BS" approach to testing, which appeals to me.

MedicineMan4040 wrote in post #17940279 (external link)
Another large detractor from Sony is the 'throw-away mentality' with rate of new arrivals and the coupled depreciation rate.
The irony/crux is that I've never seen a sensor do what the A7Rii sensor can do; and I've already stated my hope that the 1DXii
sensor is Sony influenced at the least.

Over on the 80D thread there have been some DR tests posted vs the 7D2 (https://photography-on-the.net …showthread.php?​p=17939429). It's not up at Sony levels, but that "Canon curve" (DR flattening as you drop below ISO 800) is gone. At ISO 100 it looks to be putting out over 13 stops of DR, so an improvement on any previous Canon DSLR. Hopefully the 1Dx II will at least match it.


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John ­ Sheehy
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Mar 19, 2016 10:53 |  #1213

sploo wrote in post #17940490 (external link)
I didn't want to sound a bit fanboy, but yes, he does seem to be putting forward some very good evidence that the recent Canon (high end) kit is very well built. I also like the fact he can test multiple copies of a lens against multiple copies of another, to account for sample variation. It's a very "no BS" approach to testing, which appeals to me.

Over on the 80D thread there have been some DR tests posted vs the 7D2 (https://photography-on-the.net …showthread.php?​p=17939429). It's not up at Sony levels, but that "Canon curve" (DR flattening as you drop below ISO 800) is gone. At ISO 100 it looks to be putting out over 13 stops of DR, so an improvement on any previous Canon DSLR. Hopefully the 1Dx II will at least match it.

I would expect pixel-level ISO 100 DR to be slightly better on the 1DxII than the 80D, because even with the same post-gain read noise, the fact that it is now lower for every new sensor means that even at base ISO, pre-gain read noise makes more of a difference, as the total read noise is more dependent on pre-gain noise. So, instead of ~12.43 stops of (engineering) DR at the pixel level, you might see something like 12.6 to 12.8 stops. That, I think is pretty much guaranteed. Of course, with a higher budget, they might be able to get the post-gain noise down, too, giving even more.




  
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sploo
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Mar 19, 2016 15:37 |  #1214

John Sheehy wrote in post #17940662 (external link)
I would expect pixel-level ISO 100 DR to be slightly better on the 1DxII than the 80D, because even with the same post-gain read noise, the fact that it is now lower for every new sensor means that even at base ISO, pre-gain read noise makes more of a difference, as the total read noise is more dependent on pre-gain noise. So, instead of ~12.43 stops of (engineering) DR at the pixel level, you might see something like 12.6 to 12.8 stops. That, I think is pretty much guaranteed. Of course, with a higher budget, they might be able to get the post-gain noise down, too, giving even more.

I was assuming the engineering + money = quality (usually) factor would result in lower noise, but you specifically mention pre-gain being lower; why is that? (I.e. what is it that should make pre-gain noise lower on the 1Dx II?)


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John ­ Sheehy
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Mar 19, 2016 16:29 |  #1215

sploo wrote in post #17940960 (external link)
I was assuming the engineering + money = quality (usually) factor would result in lower noise, but you specifically mention pre-gain being lower; why is that? (I.e. what is it that should make pre-gain noise lower on the 1Dx II?)

Maybe I said that wrong. What I meant was that the pre-gain read noise from the 1DxII is lower than that from the 80D, and with lower post-gain noise, that difference will show better.




  
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Official specs: Canon EOS-1D X Mark II
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