450D disabling exposure compensation in TV mode?

Please bear with me while I try to explain what I mean

When in M mode the exposure compensation bar clocks up and down automatically depending on my shutter and aperture settings, but in TV mode the exposure compensation is static and can be adjusted manually. Now frankly I prefer to have control over my exposure when shooting in this mode, however I am taking a class with a photography component and some of the basic lessons I am meant to be participating in rely on the exposure compensation auto adjusting in TV mode.
Is there a way to make this happen? I've been through the menu looking but I've had no luck, and I can't find anything by Googling either (possibly because I don't know the correct terms I should be searching).

Any help is appreciated because I really need to either have this sorted by next week or be able to tell my teacher definitively that it's not possible.

Cheers

You misunderstand what you are looking at. In MANUAL mode the meter responds to what you dial in. All you see is what the camera thinks of your chosen settings. If you are 2 stops over the 'standard' the camera reads +2.

In Av and Tv, YOU set the standard. That is done by moving the meter up and down the scale to your desired amount of EC. If you leave it a "0", that is what you get - ALL THE TIME. The camera will take your chosen parameter and calculate how much of the other parameter it needs to make the exposure you set on the meter.

Say you set Tv, and dial in 1/125. Assume fixed ISO. The camera looks at the meter you have set at zero and says, OK, to get a standard exposure at this shutter speed and ISO, I will select f/8. Done. If you move the meter to +1 EC, the camera will change the aperture (the only option it has) to give you EXPOSURE COMPENSATION of +1 EC. That would mean opening the aperture to f/5.6. YOU CONTROL WHERE THE EC IS SET. The camera sets that exposure for you by adjusting the aperture.

One more example. Again, fixed ISO. Camera in Av, you have selected f/1.4. You meter the scene. The camera selects 1/400. Now, being the expert photographer you are, decide you need to dial in -1.3 EC. You press the +/- button and rotate the meter down to -1-1/3 stops EC. The camera will automatically adjust the exposure down by the amount dialed in. YOU HAVE FORCED f/1.4 and chosen a specific ISO. The only parameter the camera has left to adjust is shutter speed. To account for the -EC YOU HAVE SELECTED, the camera changes the shutter speed by the set amount. Your new shutter speed is 1/1000.

There is no EC in Manual. You just select what you want. In Av & Tv, you choose the amount of EC you want. The camera takes care of the details. It seems your camera is working as it should be.

dredge wrote in post #17894077
When in M mode the exposure compensation bar clocks up and down automatically depending on my shutter and aperture settings......

Your biggest error seems to be that you do not understand what you are looking at in the viewfinder.

When the camera's mode dial is in Manual mode, the "exposure compensation bar" (as you called the bar graph in your viewfinder), is really a live light level meter. The light meter shows how your settings are working with the available light and your shutter speed and aperture settings. Making combinations of ISO, shutter speed, and aperture (f-stop) adjustments to get the meter to show "0" with a given light level is the typical way to get "proper" exposure using the camera's meter. If you point the camera at elements of the scene with different brightness levels you will see the meter indicate changes in the light level.

Unless your camera has "Auto ISO" along with EC (Exposure Compensation) for that, there is NO exposure compensation going on with the camera's rotary dial set to Manual mode. To the best of my knowledge, there are very few Canon DSLRs that have Auto ISO with EC.

The bar graph in your viewfinder shows the EC setting (your choice of setting) when the mode dial is in Av or Tv mode. When in any of the auto exposure modes, the bar graph does not act as a light meter as it does in manual mode.

I am quite aware of what's happening, but I couldn't find the words to explain it as you did. I guess I lack the technical understanding to explain myself clearly, sorry.

Basically, I know the camera works as it should, but for the purposes of the class I'm in it should be working differently and I was hoping I could find a workaround for that (I'm not the most popular student currently as I can't follow the lesson plans based on exposure compensation). I'm assuming that's not a possibility though, which is all I needed to know, just wanted to get some more knowledgeable people's input before I argued my case with my teacher.

Thanks.

dredge wrote in post #17894603
I am quite aware of what's happening, but I couldn't find the words to explain it as you did. I guess I lack the technical understanding to explain myself clearly, sorry.

Basically, I know the camera works as it should, but for the purposes of the class I'm in it should be working differently (NO! It should not. The camera is working properly. It is your understanding that should be working differenlty) and I was hoping I could find a workaround for that (I'm not the most popular student currently as I can't follow the lesson plans based on exposure compensation). I'm assuming that's not a possibility though, which is all I needed to know, just wanted to get some more knowledgeable people's input before I argued my case with my teacher.

Thanks.

I am sorry, but you are missing the point. It is you that is the problem. You do not understand what the meter is and what it is doing. If you did, you would not have the question, and would realize that you will be demonstrating that ignorance to your teacher by arguing your point.

Spend some time with the camera, not just playing with the meter, but actually making exposures. For the purposes of the class, and for any other purpose, your camera is doing exactly what it was designed to do.

are you not sure how to do exposure compensation in TV mode?

here's it in the manual

dredge wrote in post #17894077
I am taking a class with a photography component and some of the basic lessons I am meant to be participating in rely on the exposure compensation auto adjusting in TV mode.
Is there a way to make this happen?

Exposure compensation is a parameter that is set manually. There is no "auto adjusting" to exposure compensation. EC is set by the photographer in auto exposure modes to change exposure from what the camera determined to what the photographer wants.

An example would be a snow scene. The camera sets exposure automatically and one gets gray snow. The photographer knows from experience that the camera will do this and manually sets EC to +2 to render the snow white.

I'm staying with this thread to hopefully get an explanation later from the OP as to what the teacher was intending to teach or demonstrate.

Bassat wrote in post #17894612
I am sorry, but you are missing the point. It is you that is the problem. You do not understand what the meter is and what it is doing. If you did, you would not have the question, and would realize that you will be demonstrating that ignorance to your teacher by arguing your point.

Sorry mate, but I think you've misunderstood, the teacher is the one that wants this to happen. They are the one telling me it should be working differently, acting as a light meter and clocking up and down whilst in TV mode. By 'for the purposes of this class' I don't mean it should actually be doing that, I mean the teacher believes it should be and is trying to get me to fix the camera so it does so.

You're basically telling me that what I have been told by the teacher is incorrect, but then telling me I oughtn't be arguing with them about it, so I guess you think I'm the one trying to change this. I am not. I'm trying to appease my teacher, but from what I'm understanding that's not going to be possible.

Sorry if I've been unclear.

DreDaze wrote in post #17894625
are you not sure how to do exposure compensation in TV mode?

here's it in the manual

Cheers. I do know how to change the EC, and I'd already checked through the manual looking for a workaround for what the teacher was wanting, but I appreciate it.

Just tell the teachers that canon only has a light meter that is active until you go to manual mode. In any other mode, the meter is replaced by EC, and is waiting for you to tell it whether to expose normally, or to under/over expose.

dredge wrote in post #17895259
You're basically telling me that what I have been told by the teacher is incorrect.

yup, get the teacher a log-in and we will make sure they understand.

I didn't really read the other folks' replies, so this might be too repetitive, but I'll put it in my own words.

In either Tv or Av the meter will not move in response to varying amounts of light coming through the lens. You dial in EC after pushing the +/- button on the back. Once you have chosen the EC you want to see in the pic, the camera will change the settings accordingly. If you are in Tv, the camera will change aperture automatically. If you are in Av, the camera will change shutter speed automatically.

This is exactly how it is supposed to work on a Canon. It's been many, many years since I used a Nikon, but I'm pretty sure it was the same, hard to imagine any other way that it would work and make any sense at all.

Good luck explaining it to the teacher.

dredge wrote in post #17895259
Sorry mate, but I think you've misunderstood, the teacher is the one that wants this to happen. They are the one telling me it should be working differently, acting as a light meter and clocking up and down whilst in TV mode. By 'for the purposes of this class' I don't mean it should actually be doing that, I mean the teacher believes it should be and is trying to get me to fix the camera so it does so.

You're basically telling me that what I have been told by the teacher is incorrect, but then telling me I oughtn't be arguing with them about it, so I guess you think I'm the one trying to change this. I am not. I'm trying to appease my teacher, but from what I'm understanding that's not going to be possible.

Sorry if I've been unclear.

Cheers. I do know how to change the EC, and I'd already checked through the manual looking for a workaround for what the teacher was wanting, but I appreciate it.

Well, one of us is not understanding something. I think the most likely culprit in our inability to understand each other is my poor explanations. I apologize. I know I understand cameras. Explaining myself, perhaps not so much. Please allow me to try again.

The little pointer you see in Manual mode is telling you how the selections you have made (ISO, shutter, aperture) compare to the 'standard' exposure for the scene in question. It is essentially a light meter. It has nothing to do with exposure compensation.

When you switch to Av or Tv, that little pointer is no longer a light meter. It is another parameter for you to set. Most people refer to it exactly as you do: exposure compensation or EC. If it is in the middle, you have selected 0EC. If you want the recorded scene to be a little brighter, YOU dial in some positive EC. If you move the little pointer (press in the [+/-] key, turn the main dial) to the right 2 notches, you have dialed in +2/3EC. If you move it 4 notches to the left, you have dialed in -4/3EC. The first choice will get you a brighter scene. That would be something you'd dial in if you were shooting a white wedding dress in a mostly white church. You add exposure to keep the dress from being grey/dull. A situation where you may want to dial in -EC is shooting a mostly dark scene. The camera will tend to over expose, greying out the blacks. You want -EC (at some level) to make the blacks stay black.

Let me summarize. If you want some positive EC (in either Av or Tv) hold the [+/-] key down and turn the front dial to the right. For every click you turn the dial, the little pointer will move one click to the right, and you photo will be 1/3 stop brighter. If you want negative EC, hold the key down, and turn the front dial to the left. If you move it 3 clicks, you will have dialed in -1EC.

For all but the top-notch cameras, EC is not available in Manual mode. You just dial in the exposure you want. In Av, Tv, P, and maybe [GreenBox], you have access to EC, which is just another selection the photographer has to make, much like ISO, shutter speed, and aperture. I hope I have been more clear this time. And good luck with your class.

If the teachers don't get this already, I think the easiest thing to tell them still might be something along these lines.

"Canon only has a light meter that is active when you go to manual mode and shows the result of your current exposure settings. In any other mode, the meter is disabled and replaced by an EC gauge, and is showing you what your EC values are to expose normally, or to under/over expose."

If they come back and insist that manual mode should have EC, then they shouldn't be teaching the class, or if they want to see a light meter in the other auto modes, then they need to research camera models to see what capabilities they do or don't have.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17895354
If the teachers don't get this already, I think the easiest thing to tell them still might be something along these lines.

"Canon only has a light meter that is active when you go to manual mode and shows the result of your current exposure settings. In any other mode, the meter is disabled and replaced by an EC gauge, and is waiting for you to tell it whether to expose normally, or to under/over expose."

While I agree with you completely, you have to admit that most cameras work the way outlined above. I've been shooting SLRs since the early '70s. Every last one of them worked this way. Canon, Yashica, Pentax, Minolta, film, digital, medium format... - all of them. What are the chances the instructor is asking for something that 'most' cameras don't do? What are the chances the OP is just not familiar enough with the controls and their resultant settings?

I admit my initial instructions were a bit (a bit?) terse. I tried for clear, concise descriptions in the post just above. Perhaps I am still misunderstanding the problem, however.

If this is truly what is being expected by the instructor, then they are sadly mistaken about how things work on the Canon DSLR line (and as you mention, most others)..

dredge wrote in post #17895259
Sorry mate, but I think you've misunderstood, the teacher is the one that wants this to happen. They are the one telling me it should be working differently, acting as a light meter and clocking up and down whilst in TV mode. By 'for the purposes of this class' I don't mean it should actually be doing that, I mean the teacher believes it should be and is trying to get me to fix the camera so it does so.

The instructor should be told that Canon doesn't make an active light meter in any mode other than M. Perhaps going to live view and seeing the histogram might be better, if one wants to see a real-time indication of exposure of the scene with the selected settings, the EC, and the scene. My guess is that their desire is to show impacts to exposure (and a histogram is a better way to do this anyways than a light meter) as you change settings and EC.

Bassat wrote in post #17895361
What are the chances the instructor is asking for something that 'most' cameras don't do?

given the following, i would say that the chances are higher than you might think.

dredge wrote in post #17894077
I am taking a class with a photography component

This is apparently NOT a photography class.

Bassat wrote in post #17895361
What are the chances the OP is just not familiar enough with the controls and their resultant settings?

Given what he has said, i think dredge has a pretty clear idea of what is and isn't possible. Hell, how often do we get these types of questions from someone who has actually read the manual !!!

lol

i'm giving dredge the benefit of the doubt.