Kickstarter (or other crowdfunder) Tips?

Hi,

So I'm getting ready to self-publish a photo book. I've finally gotten an acceptable quote for producing the book, so it's time to get the money.

I'm most likely going to do a Kickstarter campaign. I've seen and participated in some. Typically there are some common incentives--extra $ for signed copies, more $$ for getting your name permanently printed in the book, prints, etc...

I was wondering for those with experience, were there any lessons learned?

And for those who have purchased art or books, are there any rewards you especially desire? Like what makes you really want to spend more $?

Any timing issues between dates promised vs slipping production dates, or unforeseen problems that cause delays?

Thanks for your help! It's a load of $$$ ($100 per book, and probably 100 books = $10k), so I gotta get this right.

Thanks

What type of book and who would buy your book?

Hogloff wrote in post #17905035
What type of book and who would buy your book?

It's a photo book. But I guess what you're asking is the genre?--that would be street photography. Artsy gritty street photography. Style is like Trent Parke's. All black and white. Paper is artisan with zero luster.

As for who would buy it--I believe most folks in general wouldn't be interested as it still costs > $100 and most of the pics are not pretty in a typical way. The target audience would be those that are into the "artist book" movement, or into collecting these types of "deep" (for lack of a better adjective) photo books. Those that like Antoine D'Agata, Bruce Gilden, Daido Moriyama, etc. books... that sort of thing.

I'm not really doing it for money, so as long as I break even I'm happy enough. So, guesstimating, it's gonna be at least $120 per book, suggested retail price.

I have let a few people see a "test book" I had printed by Blurb (which was $200 btw!!!). Some are of my target audience, some not, and so far everyone liked it, but you know, it's hard to get a good representation of the public, and who knows how honest they are being.

I do have a copy in my office at work. People come by and go, "can I see?" They thumb through it and make comments about it's cool and some of the pics remind them of their own trips to France (the topic of this book.) Yeah, they ain't gonna be buying this

My feeling is unless you have a name out there, the book will not sell. I can go into Chapters and get a great table photo book for $49.00...what will make me want to put down over $100 for your book.

How are you going to market and sell the book? The only reason the books at Barnes and Noble are reasonably priced is because their production runs are in the thousands if not more. You cannot compete with those prices.

I make a lot of books, but I have zero illusion anyone will pay $100 for my books. I have them sitting in my living room and people enjoy browsing them...but never would I think of making 100 of these books for sale.

Hogloff wrote in post #17905103
My feeling is unless you have a name out there, the book will not sell. I can go into Chapters and get a great table photo book for $49.00...what will make me want to put down over $100 for your book.

How are you going to market and sell the book? The only reason the books at Barnes and Noble are reasonably priced is because their production runs are in the thousands if not more. You cannot compete with those prices.

I make a lot of books, but I have zero illusion anyone will pay $100 for my books. I have them sitting in my living room and people enjoy browsing them...but never would I think of making 100 of these books for sale.

While I absolutely believe your opinion is a correct assessment in its own right, and represents 99.9% of the general photo book buying population....

May I ask do you own any of the books made by the authors I mentioned above?

And secondly, have you every purchased any ultra-low production run book?--say < 100 copies made, possibly hand made?

Please take a look at the books being sold here:

http://www.photobookco​rner.com/

Would you ever purchase any of them?

My competition isn't barnes and nobles. People that buy there wouldn't buy a book from kickstarter right? Also, barnes and nobles would carry pretty much 0 of the books listed on that website based on their content alone.

I'm not trying to argue with you... I value this discussion.

Hogloff wrote in post #17905103
My feeling is unless you have a name out there, the book will not sell. I can go into Chapters and get a great table photo book for $49.00...what will make me want to put down over $100 for your book.

How are you going to market and sell the book? The only reason the books at Barnes and Noble are reasonably priced is because their production runs are in the thousands if not more. You cannot compete with those prices.

I make a lot of books, but I have zero illusion anyone will pay $100 for my books. I have them sitting in my living room and people enjoy browsing them...but never would I think of making 100 of these books for sale.

btw, to answer your question, which i think is a good question: what will make you put down over $100 for a book?

......so, without sounding overly arrogant or whatever, .... i have looked at many many similar books over the last year. many of which i personally paid $100-500 for each. ...............and i've looked at my own book over and over. ..... i've come to the conclusion that i believe my book is special enough to be worth the price tag. it is unlike any other i have ever seen. the look is unique, as is the content.

at some point, a person has to believe in himself to better himself.

now, there is also a business choice of how high-end of book printing/binding to go. so, yes, i can print on cheaper paper and use cheaper binding, and go smaller. but for my images, i think they do best as big as possible, and printed on the roughest paper possible. but yes, it costs $$$. and you might be right--perhaps no one wants to pay that much.

also, as for your other question: "how are you going to market and sell the book?"...... did you look at the title of this thread?

I would go with indiegogo instead of kickstarter for several reasons. #1 they allow you to keep the funds when your goal itsnt met and number 2 they have a MUCH easier payment method process. I highly prefer contributing to indiegogo projects over kickstarter ones.

Xyclopx wrote in post #17905119
While I absolutely believe your opinion is a correct assessment in its own right, and represents 99.9% of the general photo book buying population....

May I ask do you own any of the books made by the authors I mentioned above?

And secondly, have you every purchased any ultra-low production run book?--say < 100 copies made, possibly hand made?

Please take a look at the books being sold here:

http://www.photobookco​rner.com/

Would you ever purchase any of them?

My competition isn't barnes and nobles. People that buy there wouldn't buy a book from kickstarter right? Also, barnes and nobles would carry pretty much 0 of the books listed on that website based on their content alone.

I'm not trying to argue with you... I value this discussion.

I'm just throwing in some reality into this discussion. I got a great book by Frans Lighting and Art Wolf...both for under $40. These are well known and respected photographers and the only reason I bought their books is because of their names. Now I don't know you from Adam...so what would inspire me to purchase your book? Especially at the prices you are talking about? You need to be able to answer this question.

maverick75 wrote in post #17905158
I would go with indiegogo instead of kickstarter for several reasons. #1 they allow you to keep the funds when your goal itsnt met and number 2 they have a MUCH easier payment method process. I highly prefer contributing to indiegogo projects over kickstarter ones.

hmmmmm...... didn't investigate that. thanks for bringing it to my attention. i will definitely consider.

Xyclopx wrote in post #17905147
btw, to answer your question, which i think is a good question: what will make you put down over $100 for a book?

......so, without sounding overly arrogant or whatever, .... i have looked at many many similar books over the last year. many of which i personally paid $100-500 for each. ...............and i've looked at my own book over and over. ..... i've come to the conclusion that i believe my book is special enough to be worth the price tag. it is unlike any other i have ever seen. the look is unique, as is the content.

at some point, a person has to believe in himself to better himself.

now, there is also a business choice of how high-end of book printing/binding to go. so, yes, i can print on cheaper paper and use cheaper binding, and go smaller. but for my images, i think they do best as big as possible, and printed on the roughest paper possible. but yes, it costs $$$. and you might be right--perhaps no one wants to pay that much.

also, as for your other question: "how are you going to market and sell the book?"...... did you look at the title of this thread?

Kickstarter is not a marketing avenue...it is acquiring help to develop the product. Typically you would give the kickstarter a break on the price...say $50 compared to $125 when you go into production. If you are trying to use kickstarter to just fund you 100 books and you don't give me a break on the price by putting upfront money into your book...I'm out of here.

Hogloff wrote in post #17905161
I'm just throwing in some reality into this discussion. I got a great book by Frans Lighting and Art Wolf...both for under $40. These are well known and respected photographers and the only reason I bought their books is because of their names. Now I don't know you from Adam...so what would inspire me to purchase your book? Especially at the prices you are talking about? You need to be able to answer this question.

okay fair enough.............

so that's kinda the reason for my starting this thread. is kickstarter promotion enough in itself?

here's my answer: i personally paid $200 for a book on kickstarter. that said, it was from a person perhaps not famous, but does have a name i can google. so, yeah, more famous than me, who is admittedly a no one. BUT, i was strongly considering putting down $200-300 for a book I found on kickstarter from someone with zero public significance. she did have a resume of sorts though--basically other ultra low-run books, probably handmade. but nothing that even google would bring up. ......... but read what she wrote, and i loved the images she did post on kickstarter. why did i not buy it?--if it were still available i probably would. i regret it. just too much was going on and i forgot about it. was buying a house and all, and it was just too much to worry about.

anyway...... what would inspire you to buy this book? ...............well...​........ i think that's the problem HERE--and why i asked you those previous questions. i believe the answer is nothing. nothing will make you buy this book cause even if it were $10 you wouldn't buy it. BUT, for people like me out there who appreciate this type of book, i'd buy it if i saw a few pages out of it.

Hogloff wrote in post #17905165
Kickstarter is not a marketing avenue...it is acquiring help to develop the product. Typically you would give the kickstarter a break on the price...say $50 compared to $125 when you go into production. If you are trying to use kickstarter to just fund you 100 books and you don't give me a break on the price by putting upfront money into your book...I'm out of here.

alright.... again, not arguing for the sake of arguing, but there are many articles out there about people using kickstarter simply for marketing. these are big companies that could have made the product with no funding at all. they do it on kickstarter to get eyes on the new product. they might even be losing money on their "prizes." thus, their campaigns solely existed to market a new product.

...but this is what this thread is about--what do people think?

btw............... i do agree, there needs to be an incentive. and i am giving you a break on price. it's costing me $120 / book probably. thus you buy it at my cost. i will probably sell the remaining 20 or whatever copies for $150-200. f it if those never sell. also i plan on adding more incentives like signed copies and maybe slipcases. special editions. prints. etc.

Kickstarter isn't marketing. It's a way to raise funding but to do that you need a marketing plan. You need people to know about your campaign so they fund you rather than one of the other campaigns they have never heard of. Hoping that random people who have never heard of you will decide to give you $100 isn't a great plan.

I can't tell you how to market your book as you haven't told us anything about yourself or your book. Hopefully you know what is interesting about it and will be able to convey that to magazines and other photography related media in a press release. You should also send out review copies.... which at $100 a pop is going to be expensive.... you better build the cost of your marketing into your unit cost for the copies you sell.

Sorry if this comes across as a another negative post but you really haven't given us anything to go on. The idea that 100 people who don't know who you are will pay $100 for a photo book is, in my mind, a bad plan.

Dan Marchant wrote in post #17905749
Kickstarter isn't marketing. It's a way to raise funding but to do that you need a marketing plan. You need people to know about your campaign so they fund you rather than one of the other campaigns they have never heard of. Hoping that random people who have never heard of you will decide to give you $100 isn't a great plan.

I can't tell you how to market your book as you haven't told us anything about yourself or your book. Hopefully you know what is interesting about it and will be able to convey that to magazines and other photography related media in a press release. You should also send out review copies.... which at $100 a pop is going to be expensive.... you better build the cost of your marketing into your unit cost for the copies you sell.

Sorry if this comes across as a another negative post but you really haven't given us anything to go on. The idea that 100 people who don't know who you are will pay $100 for a photo book is, in my mind, a bad plan.

No need to apologize... I want honesty.

Well I value your words. I mean it's similar to what hogloff said... So surely it represents the majority view

The reason I didn't state much about book itself is because it's not really what this thread is about. I was asking about crowd funding an art project and pitfalls that I should know about. I wasn't asking whether there's a market for my book at a price point. It's not the same thing to me. But I do appreciate both of your opinions. It's good to know anyway.

The majority of books I've purchased recently are all by people I've never heard about. I've spent $50-500 for these books, though admittedly I have never spent more than $100 for a truly unknown person. But anyway I have spent crap loads on virtually unknown artists.

Anyway....

What I really want to know is experience from those who used Kickstarter to do their own books or art pieces.

Or from people who buy books from Kickstarter. I am going to make a guess: no one who posted so far has purchased a book > $100 on Kickstarter. I think these people represent a small subset of book buyers thus what determines whether they buy something is a bit different. Right?

That would be very valuable to me.

Now your comment that Kickstarter is not for marketing is more of what I am looking for... Are you saying that cause you know or cause that's how you feel? Cause I have read articles that say the opposite--that a major benefit of kickstarter is advertising. But perhaps more by being a hub? So perhaps we need a Facebook campaign to advertise the Kickstarter page? I suppose I should read those articles more closely.

For instance an artist did a project. She told me a video would be helpful. That's what she did to raise $5k. I believe she posted he video on the crowd funder and on Facebook...