Camera Settings

Hey guys so I have done a few major special events now and I am having a hard time getting a large group into focus. For an example when I have a table of people I am only getting the center into focus like the two center people, but not the other people sitting around with them. I am getting my wide angle lense very soon. What settings should I do to fix my dilema like f stop iso and do I do manual av tv? My other question is when I am doing a macro shot I am having the exact same issue.

A wider angle lens might help, but you'll probably need to crop into the image. DOF depends on the distance AND focal length of the lens AND the f-stop. So there isn't any "rule of thumb setting" until you standardize two of the variables? Have you seen this? A Flexible Depth of Field Calculator

When shooting macro I generally want as much depth-of-field as possible, so I set my aperture to the smallest setting that will not result in loss of sharpness due to diffraction. Generally that's f/16. I'm usually setting the lens to its closest focus setting then moving the camera back-and-forth to get the desired part of the subject in sharp focus.

When shooting tables I ask everyone from the front of the table (side closest to the camera) to get up and stand behind the people at the back of the table, to reduce the difference in distance between the closest and furthest person in the group. I set my aperture to f/8 and have a cheat sheet taped to the back of my flash with depth of field range at various focal lengths and distances. But generally I know that at f/8 I have at least 2.5 feet DOF in front of the focal point and at least 6 feet behind, which is plenty. So I focus on a person about 2.5' back in the group and everyone is in focus. Bounce flash with the kicker-card up to get some eye highlights.

The actual DOF is going to vary according to (A) your sensor size (full frame vs crop), (B) your focal length, (C) your aperture, and (D) distance to your focus point.

bumpintheroad wrote in post #17915806
When shooting macro I generally want as much depth-of-field as possible, so I set my aperture to the smallest setting that will not result in loss of sharpness due to diffraction. Generally that's f/16. I'm usually setting the lens to its closest focus setting then moving the camera back-and-forth to get the desired part of the subject in sharp focus.

When shooting tables I ask everyone from the front of the table (side closest to the camera) to get up and stand behind the people at the back of the table, to reduce the difference in distance between the closest and furthest person in the group. I set my aperture to f/8 and have a cheat sheet taped to the back of my flash with depth of field range at various focal lengths and distances. But generally I know that at f/8 I have at least 2.5 feet DOF in front of the focal point and at least 6 feet behind, which is plenty. So I focus on a person about 2.5' back in the group and everyone is in focus. Bounce flash with the kicker-card up to get some eye highlights.

The actual DOF is going to vary according to (A) your sensor size (full frame vs crop), (B) your focal length, (C) your aperture, and (D) distance to your focus point.

Would you mind sharing what exactly you have on your cheat sheet? Sounds like that would help a lot.

PhotosGuy wrote in post #17915766
A wider angle lens might help, but you'll probably need to crop into the image. DOF depends on the distance AND focal length of the lens AND the f-stop. So there isn't any "rule of thumb setting" until you standardize two of the variables? Have you seen this? A Flexible Depth of Field Calculator

bumpintheroad wrote in post #17915806
When shooting macro I generally want as much depth-of-field as possible, so I set my aperture to the smallest setting that will not result in loss of sharpness due to diffraction. Generally that's f/16. I'm usually setting the lens to its closest focus setting then moving the camera back-and-forth to get the desired part of the subject in sharp focus.

When shooting tables I ask everyone from the front of the table (side closest to the camera) to get up and stand behind the people at the back of the table, to reduce the difference in distance between the closest and furthest person in the group. I set my aperture to f/8 and have a cheat sheet taped to the back of my flash with depth of field range at various focal lengths and distances. But generally I know that at f/8 I have at least 2.5 feet DOF in front of the focal point and at least 6 feet behind, which is plenty. So I focus on a person about 2.5' back in the group and everyone is in focus. Bounce flash with the kicker-card up to get some eye highlights.

The actual DOF is going to vary according to (A) your sensor size (full frame vs crop), (B) your focal length, (C) your aperture, and (D) distance to your focus point.

It also depends on the output size and viewing distance. If the image is to be a small web-sized image, you can get away with a smaller f-stop.

http://www.digitalwedd​ingblog.net/?paged=3 Scroll down on the page for the flash distance guide.

Use that guide if in manual with a speed light. I think they would kick you out of the event if you use your pop up flash. Or just use ttl and flash exposure compensation knowing if there is more white or black clothing on the people. Black/dark will make a longer duration (brighter) from the flash and the opposite with white.

frugivore wrote in post #17916046
It also depends on the output size and viewing distance. If the image is to be a small web-sized image, you can get away with a smaller f-stop.

Yes, that's true. But I figure that shooting for 8x10 is a good bet. Anything on-line will be smaller. Anything larger is for viewing at a distance. If someone wants to put their nose up to a 16x20 that's an anomaly. It's like pixel peeping - it has nothing to do with the real world outcome.

matchewgrey wrote in post #17915985
Would you mind sharing what exactly you have on your cheat sheet? Sounds like that would help a lot.

I'll share my cheat sheet, but its not going to do you a lot of good without the experience behind it. For example, look at the 28mm row. The distance is 10 feet. That's not 10 feet to the closest person, nor 10 feet to the furthest person. It is 10 feet to where the lens is focused, which might be the middle of the table. Let's say the table is smaller and I need to get closer to fill the frame. Or larger and I have to move back. The DOF does not scale proportionately to your focus distance.

Thank You I am getting a wide angle so I am glad about that

i should note that I use a 70D so those settings take into consideration the 1.6X crop factor.

I feel like the online depth of field calculators and cheat sheets do more harm than good for most new photographers, because the majority of them don't consider reproduction size or viewing distance of the final image, nor take into account post-production cropping. There are assumptions made by these calculators that are either buried in fine print that people don't read, or not stated at all, but are critical to interpretation of the numbers. Most of these calculators are giving you numbers for an 8" x 10" print held at a viewing distance of 12", which is similar in view angle to a 27" monitor at 2 feet.

Where people get confused most often in the digital age, is when they pixel peep. If you zoom into 1:1 to check focus, things that the DoF calculator told you would be in sharp focus will very likely not be.

My advice for the real-world scenario (group photo) here is figure out proper exposure, and then take the shot at a few different apertures, adjusting the shutter speed or ISO as needed to keep the exposure the correct. Then, get a feel for what works for your camera and viewing size and don't worry so much about the math. With landscape work and product photography, this empirical process is even easier, since you can take as many shots as you want. Eventually, you'll just know from experience what is going to work best in typical situations.

bumpintheroad wrote in post #17915806
The actual DOF is going to vary according to (A) your sensor size (full frame vs crop), (B) your focal length, (C) your aperture, and (D) distance to your focus point.

Only C and D are directly relevant. A and B are indirectly relevant in that they influence your choice of subject distance (D). Viewing size/resolution should be on this list instead of A and B, in my opinion.

I believe this was asked and answered before. And indeed you are correct in all technical aspects. But the vast majority of event photos will never be printed larger than 8x10 (if they are printed at all), and the vast majority of those printed larger than 8x10 will be viewed from from appropriate distances. Very few photos, in my experience, are printed 16x20 and then viewed from only 2 feet away.

What does happen is that grandpa passes away and the wedding group shot happens to be the best capture of grandpa, and so you have to pull a 100% crop out of the group. Frankly, that's enough of an outlier that I don't generally concern myself; I'd rather concentrate at getting additional photos of grandpa throughout the day.

Finally, the chart is a guideline. Like the DOF scale that used to be on lenses before they took the aperture ring away and reduced the focus throw to 1/4 turn. What exactly would you suggest other than a chart?

I always have everyone move to one side of the table for a group shot. I actually grab the B&G and walk around with them (if they want to) to each table and get a group shot with them and the table, all on one side of the table. This way, the B&G get the mandatory "walk around and thank everyone" out of the way AND a photo with every single person there! All at the same time! The B&G normally love the idea, and the guest are usually excited about it too!

Shots of people at round table are always awkward because people are half turned or have their backs to you. This also lets me use a wider aperture (usually f4)

bumpintheroad wrote in post #17926884
I believe this was asked and answered before.

Oh, only few times here at PotN...

bumpintheroad wrote in post #17926884
Finally, the chart is a guideline. Like the DOF scale that used to be on lenses before they took the aperture ring away and reduced the focus throw to 1/4 turn. What exactly would you suggest other than a chart?

Your chart seems like a fine idea to me, because you made it for your style and equipment. But like you said yourself, it's not that useful to anyone else, it's the product of both calculation and a great deal of your personal experience. That's why I would recommend that a learning photographer not go just to the calculators or someone else's cheat sheet, but go through the experimentation and learning experience of making their own.

I often do this too Blake - I actually loathe doing it but it works great if they're up for it. Even if they don't want to do the whole table thing, you can get them with all/most of the guests as they say hi and thanks.

Jon Tinkler wrote in post #17928429
I often do this too Blake - I actually loathe doing it but it works great if they're up for it. Even if they don't want to do the whole table thing, you can get them with all/most of the guests as they say hi and thanks.

really? i love doing it. That way, I know they have a photo with everyone and they are happy. So it's not as big of a deal if I missed a shot of them with a specific quest. I do always encourage them to grab me at anytime to take a photo of them with whoever.

When they are hugging and shaking hands after the ceremony is usually when the crazy friends with cameras come out. I usually let them have that time to get in their own photos. I'll usually get the grand parents and parents though. But they don't need 200 photos of them hugging people. lol