how long would it take to edit pics like this?

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17930697
For the rack systems, it would take much longer than a few minutes to edit out the rack from the environment. Placing a white panel behind it is much faster. For the staged shots where product is placed on a white platform, having lights wash the backdrop and then expose for a 3rd light on the equipment is also faster than editing.

The points being made is that with just some minor changes, editing would be very minimal or at least faster and less expensive to make.

And no, the conditions were not clear until other samples were posted. However that just opened up a different can of worms. Originally, we were working from the OP image, with a piece of equipment sitting on white paper, but the paper was gray due to the lighting setup.

There are now 2 different issues here, one is being mobile in a warehouse taking shots of each item (no different than taking shots of things in an auction house), and one is a makeshift studio/large lightbox for smaller items that can be brought over and photographed. There are ways to improve both with little expense and minor changes in setup. Add lighting to the studio area... and put the white panel behind the racks...

Sigh....you still don't get it. You keep referring to "wash the background with lights" but the problem is that there is a foreground and middle ground that the product is sitting on. You can't "wash those out" without affecting the exposure on the product. Editing out the product from the background only takes a few minutes, as others have posted.

Also, please note that the large rack product is sitting on a pallet. Placing a white background behind it isn't going to do any good as you still have the bottom of the product to deal with. It takes an overhead crane to move it. You are suggesting that it's quicker to lift the product, set it on a white background (in the middle of a factory floor) light the product and background. I'm saying that it's quicker just to cut and paste the product from whatever background is behind it.

Also, please explain what these "minor changes" would be and how they would improve editing time. I'm really curious to know.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17930723
You can completely wash out a white surrounding with lights which leaves you with a product shot that requires no post processing to get rid of the grays. It only takes 2-4 minutes to edit the one image, sure, but if shot properly, would have required virtually no edits. Multiply this effort by several hundred, and see how much it costs and how long it takes to get your product shots...

The other image of the large equipment rack on the skid would take longer due to the masking around all the bolts, hinges, etc. Simply sliding a white 5x10 polywall board behind that would eliminate a substantial amount of the work there, but you still would have some editing.

Again just a few minutes up front saves hours of work later. I also supplied various links describing how to do both the physical shoots different and also how to edit pics, to help those that are interested.

It is clear that the TS isn't going to benefit from these discussions, but others might.

I appreciate your thoughtful response, but I am still confused about this. If the client wants the products cut out, and does not want ANY background or surroundings in the images, then what difference would it make if there were brightly lit white things around and behind the items? If you are still going to cut them out manually in Photoshop, then doesn't it take the same amount of time to manually draw the outline around each of the items, regardless of what the background is?

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No it takes substantially less time to take the object out of a scene where everything else is blown out, or is a solid color. In the first sample, it takes more work for the selection than if all the gray and black vignetting was white. With the rack system, having a white backing behind it with lights on it would make for an easier cut than having the scene behind it.

There are tools out there you can buy that are better than the standard masking tools of Photoshop and the like, but that requires some funds, and they may make selections a bit faster, you will still have the fine tuning around the edges of the objects though potentially.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17930723
You can completely wash out a white surrounding with lights which leaves you with a product shot that requires no post processing to get rid of the grays. It only takes 2-4 minutes to edit the one image, sure, but if shot properly, would have required virtually no edits. Multiply this effort by several hundred, and see how much it costs and how long it takes to get your product shots...

The other image of the large equipment rack on the skid would take longer due to the masking around all the bolts, hinges, etc. Simply sliding a white 5x10 polywall board behind that would eliminate a substantial amount of the work there, but you still would have some editing.

Again just a few minutes up front saves hours of work later. I also supplied various links describing how to do both the physical shoots different and also how to edit pics, to help those that are interested.

It is clear that the TS isn't going to benefit from these discussions, but others might.

You're right. I'm not going to benefit from these discussions. But better yet, why don't show me some examples of what you are taking about so we can all benefit from your insights. The links you posted have models or objects in front of a background, not sitting on it.

Here's another pic. Please tell me how you would light this so as to not completely blow out the product.

IMAGE LINK: http://s182.photobucke​t.com …-154_zpsut7l0qew.jpg.ht​ml

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17930742
No it takes substantially less time to take the object out of a scene where everything else is blown out, or is a solid color. In the first sample, it takes more work for the selection than if all the gray and black vignetting was white. With the rack system, having a white backing behind it with lights on it would make for an easier cut than having the scene behind it.

There are tools out there you can buy that are better than the standard masking tools of Photoshop and the like, but that requires some funds, and they may make selections a bit faster, you will still have the fine tuning around the edges of the objects though potentially.

Remember, we are talking about time savings here as well. How long do you think it would take to set up a large white background behind the rack on the pallet and light it vs. simply cutting it out? You still have to cut out the bottom of the rack that is sitting on the pallet.

Clients appreciate any time savings you can give them, especially their own.

I already provided links that show how to set up lighting to do this. Whether you want to try it or not is completely up to you, but based on how you think I know very little about this, my doing this for you to match what is in those links won't provide any real value to the discussions.

For the rack, you may not need to add the lights to the panel. The advantage of the white panel in that set up is to eliminate the "noise" of the surroundings, making it easier to edit the images. A more solid uniform color behind the rack is better than walls, posters, people, and other objects that merge in with the rack details.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17930742
No it takes substantially less time to take the object out of a scene where everything else is blown out, or is a solid color. In the first sample, it takes more work for the selection than if all the gray and black vignetting was white. With the rack system, having a white backing behind it with lights on it would make for an easier cut than having the scene behind it.

There are tools out there you can buy that are better than the standard masking tools of Photoshop and the like, but that requires some funds, and they may make selections a bit faster, you will still have the fine tuning around the edges of the objects though potentially.

Ok, I think I kind of understand what you are saying here......but I am still confused about something:

If you are going to cut the items out manually - and by that I mean that you are going to make a very careful, precise outline around the item "by hand" (and not use any automated selection aids), then in that instance, how would a plain white background make a difference?

I attempted to ask this back in post #43, but I think that perhaps you didn't note the very specific nature of my question:

Tom Reichner in post #43 wrote in post #17930710
Also, if the client wants cut-outs of the products, then why would it matter what the backgrounds are? Wouldn't the cutting out take the same amount of time either way (if doing manually and not using auto-selection aids)?

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If you take a look at my before/after in my one reply, the image with the gray graduations takes more clicks/selections to capture the gray around the object without capturing the gray within the object. Now you can level up the image to turn the gray into more white, and eliminate a small amount of that work, but you then have to bring the object back with contrasts or multiple/darken layers.

If you take the white blown out background, the selection is much faster, you can capture 90% of the background in one click. There might be some brushing in mask mode to clean up the edges, depending on the subject material, but it would be minor.

Take the 30-60 seconds savings potentially, multiply by the # of products, then multiply by the # of angles.

In the future if somebody is just looking for somebody to do a service for them, and doesn't really care to discuss different techniques, we do have a "Services Wanted" forum.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17930757
I already provided links that show how to set up lighting to do this. Whether you want to try it or not is completely up to you, but based on how you think I know very little about this, my doing this for you to match what is in those links won't provide any real value to the discussions.

The links you posted show lighting for an object in front of a white background or using PS to change the background. Again, these objects are sitting on a background, not in front of it. Big difference.

While I could use PS to "white out" the background, I knew that other items, like the large rack I posted would have to be cut out.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17930760
For the rack, you may not need to add the lights to the panel. The advantage of the white panel in that set up is to eliminate the "noise" of the surroundings, making it easier to edit the images. A more solid uniform color behind the rack is better than walls, posters, people, and other objects that merge in with the rack details.

I totally agree with you here, but the time it would take to set all that up would be longer than the time it would take in post.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17930772
If you take a look at my before/after in my one reply, the image with the gray graduations takes more clicks/selections to capture the gray around the object without capturing the gray within the object. Now you can level up the image to turn the gray into more white, and eliminate a small amount of that work, but you then have to bring the object back with contrasts or multiple/darken layers.

If you take the white blown out background, the selection is much faster, you can capture 90% of the background in one click. There might be some brushing in mask mode to clean up the edges, depending on the subject material, but it would be minor.

Take the 30-60 seconds savings potentially, multiply by the # of products, then multiply by the # of angles.

In the future if somebody is just looking for somebody to do a service for them, and doesn't really care to discuss different techniques, we do have a "Services Wanted" forum.

I agree. But again...for the umpteen time, you cannot blow out the background on these shots with lighting alone without overexposing the product.

These panels are very light, and can be quickly stood up. If you do this type of shooting alot, it is quite easy to mount these 1/16 panels to a PVC frame that stands on its own, and you can simply slide this around as needed. You mount the panel to the PVC using velcro, and disassembly isn't very bad at all. PVC can be tricky to work with though.

To deal with the horizontal surface the equipment is on, you use reflectors to direct some of the flash output back down to the surrounding surface. This won't create any new shadows but will light up the surface a bit. This is where I do lack experience, I have several reflectors, but haven't quite mastered the art of using them to eliminate shadows and lighten up areas that need it.

I would also need reflector mounts for my light stands to hold them, and that is one thing I am currently missing. I have to have somebody hold the reflectors.

Personally for the big rack I would have a large sheet of white polywall to stand behind the rack, Just like Teamspeed suggested, and then three or four smaller sheets, asy 3×4 feet that I could lay around the base of the rack. It wouldn't be perfect, but it would be a lot better than starting from nothing. I would use white to avoid throwing a colour cast on the product itself. This would be quick to set up, and also significantly reduce the post time required.

I have found that Pollywall, I think that's what it is called, large plastic sheets that look like corrugated cardboard, are really handy for improvised shoots in industrial locations. You don't even always need stands as it will simply lean up against whatever is handy. It's light weight so can be handled by a single person if necessary. Have some clear acrylic sheets handy too, and you can even have a reflective surface for some of the smaller items that can be stood on them.

Alan

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17930772
If you take the white blown out background, the selection is much faster, you can capture 90% of the background in one click. There might be some brushing in mask mode to clean up the edges, depending on the subject material, but it would be minor.

But I keep saying that I am not talking about that type of situation (the "one click" stuff, or any use of automated selection aids).
I am talking specifically about when you are selecting the item manually by drawing an extremely precise outline around the item. I keep asking my question, and keep placing that parameter upon it, but it seems as though you are not seeing the parameter.

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