how long would it take to edit pics like this?

This was a quick test, and I can run 2 diffused flashes on the object to soften it a bit but still knock out everything. Also this result is MUCH easier to edit. If your client wants zero shadow under the items, 1) that seems odd, and is this really a requirement and 2) there are some more tricks to make those go away too.

This is just to show you that there are ways to produce better in-camera results with marginal amount of setup. I am sure if you took the time to play around a bit with what you shoot, you will find that this is workable.

Do what you want, but I have no doubt that if you take some time to try some techniques, research equipment, etc, your results will be better for it.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17930874
This was a quick test, and I can run 2 diffused flashes on the object to soften it a bit but still knock out everything. Also this result is MUCH easier to edit. If your client wants zero shadow under the items, 1) that seems odd, and is this really a requirement and 2) there are some more tricks to make those go away too.

This is just to show you that there are ways to produce better in-camera results with marginal amount of setup. I am sure if you took the time to play around a bit with what you shoot, you will find that this is workable.

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. I prefer my methods.

Then my earlier assessment was correct. Good luck in your future endeavors.

Just to follow up for others that might be following, here is what the difference is by taking the flash off the camera and remote triggering that as well, while using a white card diffuser. This way also, I can move around a bit more with all the lighting locked in. I have 1 more flash and remote that I could pull out to light up the other side, so that I would have lights on all 4 corners.

It is a softer look for sure, and again is very easy to set up. Lighting is an art to be sure! Here is the new result, and a comparison to the previous.

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jcolman wrote in post #17930869
If you look at my shots, the lighting is consistent.

jcolman wrote in post #17926734

IMAGE LINK: http://s182.photobucke​t.com …-101_zpsgc0ov0hf.jpg.ht​ml

One thing I noticed right off is that the 3 buttons (or knobs) at the bottom of the frame - the orange, red, and green knobs - all look very dark compared to the rest of the unit. It is as if they were in shadow or something, and their darkness causes them to be incongruous with the rest of the item. Was this a problem that had to be corrected, or was it ok to just leave those knobs conspicuously dark and shaded out?

Did you have similar problems getting consistent light on all parts of any of the other items?

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Tom Reichner wrote in post #17930881
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One thing I noticed right off is that the 3 buttons (or knobs) at the bottom of the frame - the orange, red, and green knobs - all look very dark compared to the rest of the unit. It is as if they were in shadow or something, and their darkness causes them to be incongruous with the rest of the item. Was this a problem that had to be corrected, or was it ok to just leave those knobs conspicuously dark and shaded out?

Did you have similar problems getting consistent light on all parts of any of the other items?

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First, there are other pics of this unit where the panel (the one with the buttons on it) are in the up and closed position and can be clearly seen. So no big deal that there are shadows under the unit, which is why the knobs are darker. Second, I set my lighting to be as consistent from one product to the next so as to maximize the number of shots I could shoot in the given time. If I were to take the time to constantly tweak my lighting for each and every shot, we never would have managed to get thru the day.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17930874
Do what you want, but I have no doubt that if you take some time to try some techniques, research equipment, etc, your results will be better for it.

I have spent 1000's of hours shooting in studios during my career. I have lit everything from glassware, automobiles, large venues and items so small that you could barely see them. I've shot day for night, night for night, front projection screen, rear projection screen, blue and green screen. I've used just about every kind of light and light modifier on the market. From 10k HMI brutes to penlights to light my shots. I cut my teeth on shooting film, starting with Hassleblads and 4 x5 view cameras. I've used cookies, scrims, flags, frosted glass, panels, smoke and water reflections to get the shots I wanted.

But thanks for your suggestion to "try some techniques and research equipment". I'll keep that in mind.

So I took your advice and did some research on "new techniques" This is how I'm going to light everything from now on.

IMAGE LINK: http://s182.photobucke​t.com …echt-20020525052.jpg.html

jcolman wrote in post #17930911
I have spent 1000's of hours shooting in studios during my career. I have lit everything from glassware, automobiles, large venues and items so small that you could barely see them. I've shot day for night, night for night, front projection screen, rear projection screen, blue and green screen. I've used just about every kind of light and light modifier on the market. From 10k HMI brutes to penlights to light my shots. I cut my teeth on shooting film, starting with Hassleblads and 4 x5 view cameras. I've used cookies, scrims, flags, frosted glass, panels, smoke and water reflections to get the shots I wanted.

But thanks for your suggestion to "try some techniques and research equipment". I'll keep that in mind.

I had no idea there was so much experience behind those results. I am glad you have reached the pinnacle of photography, I hope to be there one day.

jcolman wrote in post #17930911
I have spent 1000's of hours shooting in studios during my career. I have lit everything from glassware, automobiles, large venues and items so small that you could barely see them. I've shot day for night, night for night, front projection screen, rear projection screen, blue and green screen. I've used just about every kind of light and light modifier on the market. From 10k HMI brutes to penlights to light my shots. I cut my teeth on shooting film, starting with Hassleblads and 4 x5 view cameras. I've used cookies, scrims, flags, frosted glass, panels, smoke and water reflections to get the shots I wanted.

But thanks for your suggestion to "try some techniques and research equipment". I'll keep that in mind.

For many folks, just because they know how to do lots of things, and have lots of experience, does not necessarily mean that they always do the very best thing for every situation.

Even those with extensive know-how often get "stuck in their ways", and fail to push themselves to do every single little nit-picking' thing just right every time they shoot. So, it stands to reason that TeamSpeed's suggestion to "try some new techniques" and to research new gear is a very reasonable one.

Even though you already "know it all" (my words, not yours), doesn't necessarily mean that you always put to use everything that you know. Nobody has it all figured out just perfect.....dare I say, not even you. And hence, you could likely benefit from taking heed of TeamSpeed's advice.

When presented with advice, a humble approach is often better received than a "I don't need any help from you" kind of response (even in those instances where you really don't need any help).

On the other hand, you did not start this thread asking for any advice with regards to lighting, nor for any advice about how to shoot. You only wanted to know about the editing of the images that you already shot. And I can certainly understand that it would be immensely frustrating to constantly be presented with advice that you never, ever asked for.


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Since this was posted in this forum and not in the Services Wanted - https://photography-on-the.net/forum/forumdis​play.php?f=106, these discussions always happen, don't they? Just about every time somebody presents a problem they are having with editing an image to make it better, or do a subject isolation, the advice is almost always "make sure you get the results the best you can at time of exposure" vs trying to make an image that is a bit lacking better after the fact.

But point taken, and I hope that this shows others how to more easily set up an area for product shots in the future.

I would like to hear from Blake on his set up as well, as I would like to learn some different ways to set this up. I am about to list some camera equipment (I think), and I could use other pointers. My next setup will be with plexiglass with white muslin on it, with a softbox underneath. This will eliminate the remaining shadows I have (or should hopefully).

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17930929
I had no idea there was so much experience behind those results. I am glad you have reached the pinnacle of photography, I hope to be there one day.

I certainly have not reached that magical pinnacle yet. Maybe someday when I'm really old and gray I'll be there. But the point I was trying to make was to let you know that "I've been there, done that" plenty of times in the past. I appreciate peoples advice on things I don't know much about. Lighting is not necessarily one of those things.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #17930936
For many folks, just because they know how to do lots of things, and have lots of experience, does not necessarily mean that they always do the very best thing for every situation.

Even those with extensive know-how often get "stuck in their ways", and fail to push themselves to do every single little nit-picking' thing just right every time they shoot. So, it stands to reason that TeamSpeed's suggestion to "try some new techniques" and to research new gear is a very reasonable one.

Even though you already "know it all" (my words, not yours), doesn't necessarily mean that you always put to use everything that you know. Nobody has it all figured out just perfect.....dare I say, not even you. And hence, you could likely benefit from taking heed of TeamSpeed's advice.

When presented with advice, a humble approach is often better received than a "I don't need any help from you" kind of response (even in those instances where you really don't need any help).

On the other hand, you did not start this thread asking for any advice with regards to lighting, nor for any advice about how to shoot. You only wanted to know about the editing of the images that you already shot. And I can certainly understand that it would be immensely frustrating to constantly be presented with advice that you never, ever asked for.

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This is all true. Unfortunately TeamSpeed didn't suggest anything new in terms of lighting that I didn't already know. However, his suggestions on editing are spot on. But his methodology for getting the results are not feasible in my instances.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #17930936
it would be immensely frustrating to constantly be presented with advice that you never, ever asked for.

yet there are probably thousands of "what lens should i buy?" threads here that end up suggesting the OP buy some new glass. LOL

i don't like the look of cutouts at all, yet I have suggested doing just that for a number of clients. When someone is doing marketing work, function often comes way before form.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17930929
I had no idea there was so much experience behind those results. I am glad you have reached the pinnacle of photography, I hope to be there one day.

...I don't think that jcolman either deserves the sarcasm nor your attitude.

I don't do product photography. I dabbled in it. Very briefly.

I don't do it because it is very hard to do it right and I really don't have the patience. And your examples in this thread show how easy it is to get it wrong. Not only did you not listen to the brief (soft not hard light) and the image ended up with obvious shadows on both the body and at the feet on both the original and the reshoot. Parts of the right hand side are blowing out. And the reshoot still does not match up with the results that jcolman got. What you did was easy. I've done the same sort of thing on a couple of jobs and the results were at best acceptable.

But on a job like this you really don't have time on location to, as you put it, to take "the time to play around a bit with what you shoot." If it was only a handful of products you might be able to get away with diagramming it out before hand and then tweaking on set. But we are talking about 100 products: some as big as my hand and some as big as my body. To "get it right in camera" for each of these products would require at least five minutes sketching out a lighting plan, then ten minutes to set up and then the tweaking begins, like adding flags to get rid of hotspots.

There are times when you need to think like a photographer and times when you need to think like a business. At the start of this thread I agreed with you: get it right in camera. But jcolman very quickly made his case: you haven't made yours. Your method would increase time on set (especially the "playing around with what you shoot" part): and a cut-out at the end of the process would still probably be required.

Banquet bear is spot on. When I have plenty of time and only a few products to shoot, I love nothing more than "getting it right in camera". But as BB mentioned, photography (to me anyway) is a business first. Clients time is more valuable than my own. This is one of the reasons I've been in business for over 40 years. Actually, I've only had my own business for 8 years because I retired from working for other studios. But the lessons I learned during that time taught me about the value of clients time vs "we can fix it in post".

So on the subject of lighting, here's a shot I did a number of years ago that you guys might find interesting. I only had one light bulb to work with so I had to create a composite.

IMAGE LINK: http://s182.photobucke​t.com …ight_blue_8-6-07.jpg.html