85mm f1.2 vs 70-200mm f2.8 II Which one to get for portraits?

Hey guys! I already have the 70-200mm f4 non IS and I had it for many years, but it has never been my favorite lens, I shoot full frame, I already have the 24-105L, 50L, and the 135L. I was thinking of upgrading the 70-200 for the few events I cover that need the flexibility, but it's not a FL I use very often, and thats why I was thinking about getting the 85L instead, I mainly take portraits and love the bokeh of large aperture lenses, which is why I have the 50L and the 135L. Sigma has let me down in the past, (I had a lens that just worked at max aperture, sigma wouldn't fix it) I've thought about getting the samyang 85mm and go ahead with the 70-200II, but the siren call of f1.2 and the AF just keeps me from going in that direction. The reason I ask here is because I have read hundreds of threads, and I am always surprised by the good advice that some of you give, it is a pretty penny and I can't afford to just get both. Thanks!

You can shoot the 85L at 1.2 for portraits but to get enough DOF you need some distance and they are full body portraits. Obviously you can do the crazy DoF shot of the eyelash at 1.2 and it will be sharp unlike the 50L which isn't at 1.2.

Since you have both the 50 and 135, you may find that you now have 3 'close' lenses and you are not using them enough to justify it - but it is only money and gear lust is hard to stop sometimes.

One of the things that hit me when I bought it, and I had the 50 and 135 at the time also, is the min focus distance is longer than you want it to be - unlike the 50 - so it is not a tight quarters lens.

In terms of crisp portriats that are sharp the 70-200 f4 is perfect for that and that isn't something you should necessarily give up - sometimes that is 100% desired - it isn't a bokeh special but it is sharp.

If you have the space, the 135 is going to create as good if not better portraits - the 85 at closer quarters is like the 135 but you can't use it at a close quarters party like you can with the 50. The 50 is more usable.

If you are a 85 person you may find you need to be a 35 person instead of a 50 - otherwise you are going to have 3 lenses and not get enough use of them.

I have moved on to high megapixel cameras and the SS you need with the 85 and 135 are very high so I have moved using these two lenses to my A7Rii and don't use them on my 5dsr - I am actually going to be buying the new Tamron 85 1.8 because it has IS and I want an 85 that I can use on my 5dsr.

The 85L is kind of like owning an Otus - it is just different. When you take it out of your bag, you do so slowly. When you remove the rear cap, and you look at the glass flush with the mount, you do so in a scared I'm going to damage it kind of way - but you know, once it is attached, it is simply the best at what it does. I equate it to owning and driving a GT3. 97% of the time, it is easier to jump into the SUV to take the kids to sports or get groceries but when you get into a GT3, there is nothing like it, it is beyond description - it is simply the best driving experience.

Sometimes you just have to own something and decide if it is your thing so I say do it - if it doesn't work sell it. The 85L thread has some of the most beautiful portraits and yet it is not a lens for everyone.

Howz the Sony IBIS working with the 85 and 135?

windpig wrote in post #17927870
Howz the Sony IBIS working with the 85 and 135?

Outrageously good - you can shoot tack sharp and pixel peep at 1/20th. The 135 is truly amazing on the A7Rii.

That's good to know.

Thanks!

Sell the 70-200 f4 and buy the f2.8 as well as a 85 1.8.

Moncho wrote in post #17927779
Hey guys! I already have the 70-200mm f4 non IS and I had it for many years, but it has never been my favorite lens, I shoot full frame, I already have the 24-105L, 50L, and the 135L. I was thinking of upgrading the 70-200 for the few events I cover that need the flexibility, but it's not a FL I use very often, and thats why I was thinking about getting the 85L instead, I mainly take portraits and love the bokeh of large aperture lenses, which is why I have the 50L and the 135L. Sigma has let me down in the past, (I had a lens that just worked at max aperture, sigma wouldn't fix it) I've thought about getting the samyang 85mm and go ahead with the 70-200II, but the siren call of f1.2 and the AF just keeps me from going in that direction. The reason I ask here is because I have read hundreds of threads, and I am always surprised by the good advice that some of you give, it is a pretty penny and I can't afford to just get both. Thanks!

Heya,

I favor shorter, faster lenses for portrait, because I like to be close to the subject, and not shouting (literally) commands for hands, and positions, from 30 feet away in the wind. I normally use my 200 F2.8L for the "look." But I generally favor my 85mm F1.4 for the close range stuff.

The reality is, 85mm F1.2 and F1.4 have wide aperture and the focal length on full frame allows you to be much close to the subject, combined, this generates a depth of field that is super thin so you get a lot of out of focus area (and then bokeh comes into play there).

There is a stark difference between using 85 F1.2 and 135 F2 or 200 F2.8 though. 85 F1.2 will has such a shallow depth of field that you will have to stop down sometimes if you want both eyes in focus, or the whole subject in focus, depending on how close you are. The 135 and 200, however, can stay wide open more often, because the depth of field is greater (due to distance, and smaller aperture). So if you like that look of someone melting into the out of focus areas, the 85 F1.2 will do it better. If you like your subject to be in focus, and simply have a creamed out of focus background, that's where the 135L an 200 F2.8's do the job best. So your preference really would decide which to do.

I favor shorter lenses, but for me, I never went with the 85L and I stay with my 200 F2.8L, because I do not like when my subject is only partially in focus. I can't tell you how annoying it is (for me) to see portraits of people with their eyes in focus, but their noses & ears out of focus, it just looks silly to me. I love thin depth of field, but to a point. I like my subject in focus. I still want my background to be creamy and not busy, and that only happens with thin depth of field. I find telephotos produce the better look, ultimately. This is why the 135L and 200L excel, the keep the subject mostly all in focus, and still destroy the background.

Rent the 85L and 70-200 F2.8 II. See for yourself what is best for your needs.

Very best,

Moncho wrote in post #17927779
I was thinking of upgrading the 70-200 for the few events I cover that need the flexibility, but it's not a FL I use very often, and thats why I was thinking about getting the 85L instead

So 70-200 is not a focal length that you use often so you think getting a more specialized lens with a fixed focal length right in the middle of that range would make more sense?

Thanks Wallstreetone, MalVeauX, but there is no renting where I am. I've worked with the f2.8 before, and think it's a great lens, but I only use mine when I need to change framing quickly, and thats not very often, the IS is impressive and useful, but otherwise I leave mine at home in favor of the 135mm. I did some experimenting with my zoom and I like the working distance for horizontal head and shoulders shots at 85mm, but I worry that it will be to close to the 50mm I already have.

Update.
I got an 85mm rokinon f1.4 to see if I like the focal length. It is great indoors, but liveview focusing really gets in the way. It probably won't be such a big deal outside on a tripod. So far I like my 135L better outside.

Moncho wrote in post #17938179
Update.
I got an 85mm rokinon f1.4 to see if I like the focal length. It is great indoors, but liveview focusing really gets in the way. It probably won't be such a big deal outside on a tripod. So far I like my 135L better outside.

MF lens work well on a camera like the A7Rii, which I own, but I can't ever see using them on a Canon DSLR unless you are a wide angle, large Fstop, landscape shooter and you shoot F11 and shoot at HFD.

I own and love both lenses, but for portraits I pick the 85mm f1.2 almost every time.

The image stabilization of the 70-200 is terrific, as is the subject isolation at 200mm. And while the zoom's bokeh is really nice in many instances, it's definitely a bit busier than the 85's.

But the most important factor for me is the way the the 85mm handles skin tones and textures -- in a soft (in the best way), slightly gentle and very natural way. The zoom seems to render things with a little harder edge or feel, leaning a little toward the clinical side.

And it's not really a difference in sharpness because the 85 can be extremely sharp even wide open at f1.2. It's just that I like portraits with a bit of a soft glow, almost like looking at the world through rose colored glasses, and I get more of that feel with the 85.

So while the zoom may actually be more accurate, if you're looking for a little fairy dust and not so much clinical accuracy in your portraits, the 85 would be a great choice

I think I've got examples of both lenses in my gallery.

85mm lenses are a portrait lens, 135mm too. Make sure your next lens wont make your current lens retire. If you choose the 85L, you will have 2 lens with quite the same purpose (135 and 85) also you will find that 85mm and 50mm a bit too close. 35mm and 85mm would be a nice combo.

You said 70-200mm isnt the FL you use very often, then i assume you are a 24-85 shooter. How about selling all of your lenses then buy 24-70 II + 70-200 f4L IS + 85L?

FTb Great images! Love them all!
I hope you can answer a couple questions. Do you crop often when using the 50L ?, I find myself doing it very often since I can only trust the center focus point with that lens. Are you focusing manually when you compose the subject outside the center? "I own and love both lenses, but for portraits I pick the 85mm f1.2 almost every time." When do you choose the 135mm over the the 85mm? But you also not only keep the 135mm around, but also got a manual focus one! And finally, when do you use your 70-200? And do you think your 135 could help out if you had an f4? Thanks! Your pictures are just making me go towards getting the 85mm first and then later, get the 70-200 IS II.

Moncho wrote in post #17950902
FTb Great images! Love them all!

Thanks very much Moncho!

I try to compose as close to the final framing as possible so I don't have to crop. But, because I'm usually composing and shooting really quickly on the go as my subject is moving and posing, I can't always get things framed as perfectly as if it were a more pre-planned shot. I try to consider expression and lighting first, and that usually determines when I snap the shutter, with framing and sharpness secondary or tertiary. If I have to crop in post I will, but I try hard to avoid it.

Sometimes, particularly if I'm shooting very quickly and don't have time to put a focus point on the model's eye. I installed the precision screen (Eg-S?) in my 6D for that purpose. I'll often shoot 3 shots in a 1 stop bracketing mode and I might move slightly forward or backward with my camera when doing so to increase the likelihood that one of the shots is pretty close to perfect focus.

Often it's just what's on the camera at the time or just what suits my fancy. But if I had a general rule, it would be to use the 135mm when I have more room and more available light, like outdoor shots, and to pick the 85mm when I"m in closer quarters and/or lower light levels where its shorter focal length and 1+ stop advantage can reduce motion blur.

I consider those two lenses almost interchangeable, but if I had to pic just one it would be the 85mm purely for one practical reason - I can crop the 85 to get 135, but if the 135 is too long or too slow, I'd be out of luck.

When I think I'm gonna want the flexibility of the zoom range plus the extra compression of the 200mm focal length. Basically if I'm feeling lazy that day and don't want to be changing lenses. I get a lot of images I like from this zoom but often, when I'm working on them in post, I find myself wishing I'd used one of the primes for their slightly better bokeh and gentler skin rendering.

Only if sharpness of the subject is more important than bokeh because you usually increase the former and deteriorate the latter by stopping down. I just usually prefer the compromises of shooting wide open.

Good luck with your search. IMHO, a photographer's sensibilities are WAY more important than slight differences between lenses.