Sharpening/noise reduction ...which first?

I am not very educated when it comes to processing.. I do most my processing in Lightroom and get acceptable results but was wondering, should noise reduction be done before or after sharpening is applied? And also what is the best order to use the adjustments? White balance,contrast,black​s,whites etc.
I would like to improve my processing to get the best from my images...
Many thanks..

don1163 wrote in post #17935243
I am not very educated when it comes to processing.. I do most my processing in Lightroom and get acceptable results but was wondering, should noise reduction be done before or after sharpening is applied? And also what is the best order to use the adjustments? White balance,contrast,black​s,whites etc.
I would like to improve my processing to get the best from my images...
Many thanks..

Heya,

Before any editing at all, I would do whatever noise reduction you feel you need first. All other edits come after that.

Very best,

The rule is: first NR, then sharpening, because sharpening tends to enhance the noise that you already have. That's fine if you want to reduce noise to zero.

But if you want to do only as little NR as strictly necessary (as I do - to preserve detail and image structure), you can only do it as the last step, checking the result in real time. Any sharpening after that would again change the noise look and blow your NR fine tuning.

I always do NR, first, so as to not sharpen the noise. That said, LR does not specifically apply changes in order. So, either way you should get the same end product; you can always try it out and see, since LR is non-destructive. Just make a virtual copy of your image and process it both ways.

My understanding and according to Lightroom guru Tim Grey it does not matter in Lightroom what order you make adjustments. Though adjustments you make later may have an impact on earlier settings but since LR is non-destructive you can just go back and change the setting you don't like anymore.

I tend to work from top to bottom in the develop pane, which might not be optimal, but after the first pass, I go back to fix things that to me stand out, and that can proceed in any order.

Thus fixing the blacks usually requires a subsequent exposure adjustment - and sharpening often needs noise control. I will do back and forth as necessary between noise and sharpening... and then a day later it doesn't look right, so I trim it some more.

As usual, no rules in photography.

Archibald wrote in post #17935320
I tend to work from top to bottom in the develop pane, which might not be optimal, but after the first pass, I go back to fix things that to me stand out, and that can proceed in any order.

Thus fixing the blacks usually requires a subsequent exposure adjustment - and sharpening often needs noise control. I will do back and forth as necessary between noise and sharpening... and then a day later it doesn't look right, so I trim it some more.

As usual, no rules in photography.

This is also my approach, with a couple of passes through the system, coupled with a bit of back and forth as I am going along. As others have said in LR/ACR, and I think most other parametric RAW processing programs, it doesn't really matter what order you make changes too the settings in the program always applies the editing to the image in the same way when the images are exported in a raster/bitmap format.

Alan

Thanks for your responses guys...I have been applying noise reduction as the last step. I will now try to use it earlier on and see what difference it makes..
Thanks again..

The whole issue of Sharpening vs Noise Reduction is from pixel editors like Photoshop, where an adjustment is applied to the image immediately (so it is best to remove noise before sharpening). Lightroom is different. It doesn't make any difference which you apply first because, as mentioned above, LRs adjustments are only actually applied when you export an image, at which point you have no control over the order they are applied in.

Order doesn't matter in LR. You can prove this very simply. Start with raw shot. Make a virtual copy. Process the first one from the top down, while recording the adjustments. Manually apply those same adjustments from the bottom up on the virtual copy. End result: two identically processed identical photos. Order is irrelevant in LR. I've been using LR since v3. It has always behaved like this. I don't understand the confusion.

Bassat wrote in post #17935839
Order is irrelevant in LR. I've been using LR since v3. It has always behaved like this. I don't understand the confusion.

There is no confusion , everyone that has posted about Lightroom here has said the order is irrelevant....

don1163 wrote in post #17936077
There is no confusion , everyone that has posted about Lightroom here has said the order is irrelevant....

Then that means sharpening and noise reduction are occurring on the base photo and isn't cumulative, correct? That is not always ideal.

I actually employ a 3 part process. I remove "objectionable" noise first, which means I still have a bit of noise left in the image (visibly so). The first round of noise reduction occurs on each color channel, as each channel has a different noise characteristic. After this I run sharpening, and I might then run a final noise reduction afterwards, but usually a very low level not very aggressive run.

I use Photoshop though.

I tend to use Lightroom more often as it suits me better.. But I will try your approach when I use Photoshop again.. I used to use Photoshop all the time but since getting Lightroom I rarely use it...
I appreciate your input as I know you are good at getting low noise at higher ISO settings..

bpalermini wrote in post #17935306
My understanding and according to Lightroom guru Tim Grey it does not matter in Lightroom what order you make adjustments. Though adjustments you make later may have an impact on earlier settings but since LR is non-destructive you can just go back and change the setting you don't like anymore.

On virtual copies of the same horridly underexposed images (post process +2.5 EV Exposure setting) from a Canon 5D, these crops of about 1/4 of the frame area, in LR I did Luminance=90, Sharpen=90:
Sharpen first, then Luminance noise next...

I gleaned from your post to never use Paintshop Pro, neither method yields good results.