Does anyone have a formula for the 5DS R to give those delicious dark B&W images

OK firstly its definitely me!
But I don't seem to be able to get those besutiful, powerful, deep, deep black and white images on the 5DS R.

But then I failed on the 5DIII - this is down to me as the camera is perfect in all other respects. Actually I am delighted with it. Other than cost a firtune in computing power and storage ( but then to be expected .... High detail ... Big files ... Needs a big computer to handle it.

I shoot in RAW , and in colour, as I Was told it captures more detail this way, and convert them. Plus some dont like B&W.

Software wise I have and use Canon DPP, Photoshop Element 13 and the excelelnt Potraiture plug in.

My problem is they seem a but wishy washy or "Dark Grey & White" sums it up perfectly. IMO the colour versions are perfect for me anyway.

I cant post examples as the new workstation has its new faulty MB being replaced.

i think googles' nik software plug ins work for elements, could be wrong, try their b+w presets

What is your workflow for creating b/w conversions?

It sounds like your first step is to create the best color image you can (which is what I typically do), and then you proceed from there. Just using Photoshop I've always felt the key is to use b/w adjustment layers, playing with each color channel, erasing away various portions of the image until I get the results I want. Typically I may create 3-4 layers which to give me a pleasing range of bright highlights to dark blacks.

Are you using layers? Here is a sample using my method:

SilverEfex Pro

https://www.google.com …products/silver​-efex-pro/

bildeb0rg wrote in post #17938308
i think googles' nik software plug ins work for elements, could be wrong, try their b+w presets

Thanks

sapearl wrote in post #17938310
What is your workflow for creating b/w conversions?

It sounds like your first step is to create the best color image you can (which is what I typically do), and then you proceed from there. Just using Photoshop I've always felt the key is to use b/w adjustment layers, playing with each color channel, erasing away various portions of the image until I get the results I want. Typically I may create 3-4 layers which to give me a pleasing range of bright highlights to dark blacks.

Are you using layers? Here is a sample using my method:

Hosted photo: posted by sapearl in
./showthread.php?p=179​38310&i=i257160596
forum: Canon Digital Cameras

No I am not using layers.
Pretty basic workflow, open in DPP 4 to see the raws, and choose one. Go to photoshop elements 13, open in camera raw, adj. exposure if necc, then edit say any bad skin, sharpen a little, remove all saturation, save as Jpeg. Open in Canon DPP remove all saturation again, then darken, a little, use curves to try and improve ... save

FarmerTed1971 wrote in post #17938318
SilverEfex Pro

https://www.google.com …products/silver​-efex-pro/

Thanks will check this out.

Submariner wrote in post #17938347
No I am not using layers.
Pretty basic workflow, open in DPP 4 to see the raws, and choose one. Go to photoshop elements 13, open in camera raw, adj. exposure if necc, then edit say any bad skin, sharpen a little, remove all saturation, save as Jpeg. Open in Canon DPP remove all saturation again, then darken, a little, use curves to try and improve ... save

Once you get the hang of using layers there are TREMENDOUS new capabilities that become available in your editing abilities.

I don't use any plug-ins (nothing at all wrong with them any many of my friends use them with beautiful results, I'm just a s/w minimalist) but there is so much more you can do from a creative control standpoint once you start using the layers concept.

Does Elements have layers?

FarmerTed1971 wrote in post #17938395
Does Elements have layers?

Yes it does.

Your problem is that you are just desaturating the image, this will always provide very poor results. I Think what you will need to do is take a TIFF into the PSE editor, rather than using ACR, as I don't think the PSE version of ACR has the Monochrome conversion option with the eight channel mixer. Also it seems to me from the way you are describing things as if you are trying to apply edits to the RAW file in DPP, followed by ACR and then back to DPP. This is not actually possible, you would have to convert to a TIFF in order to do this, maybe you are and I missed it in the description of your workflow, but I did notice you mention desaturating colours twice.

Once you have converted the image to a TIFF and opened it in the PSE editor, you would want to use ideally the Channel Mixer set to Monochrome, or the Black and White filter (the Monochrome option in ACR works the same way if you have access to it.) All of these methods for converting to black and white allow you to change the way that the various different colours are converted to shades of grey. This effectively changes the spectral response of the conversion, in much the same way as using orthochromatic or panchromatic film would, as well as mimicking the use of various different coloured filters, Yellow, Orange, Red and Green were perhaps the most common, that would have been used with black and white film.

Changing the colour channel mix has a VERY VERY BIG EFFECT on the look of your monochrome conversion. Here is an example that I picked because it has a both very bright red and blue areas in it.

Colour image.

So to follow on, if I use the channel mixer I can chose to make the reds all darker, and boost the blue channel. This will have a significant effect on the image.

BigAl - what a wonderful example you displayed of what I was trying to say in my modest post on using b/w conversion adjustment layers in PS. I think you said it perfectly. Many of the plugins and Nik, etc. effects offer similar results, but being a cheapskate I've always just dabbled with the sliders in PS and experimented with layers. Again, this is a terrific set of comparison images - thanks for sharing!

To follow BigAl's instructive images I offer two more of my own. This was shot late in the afternoon with a nice soft diffuse partially cloudy sky. It is another one of Gehry's beautiful structures, this time the Peter B. Lewis School of business on the CWRU campus in Cleveland.

Here is the same image, but converted to b/w using only Photoshop, playing with the color channels in the b/w conversion menu. The stainless steel roof was similar in tone and value to the gray/blue sky and I didn't want the two blending together. I needed definition, to have them separated. To do that I created an adjustment layer just for the roof and played with the blue and cyan channel sliders until I got the desired effect.

I wanted I bit more contrast and definition on the bricks also, so I played with the red and yellow sliders on those channels until I achieved the desired level of separation. Once all was done I played with brightness and contrast, and then sharpened portions of the image. Here is the b/w result: