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Thread started 25 Mar 2016 (Friday) 14:38
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An equipment epiphany??

 
welshwizard1971
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Mar 25, 2016 14:38 |  #1

We all fuss on here, at least a lot of us do, about the latest camera, latest sensor, latest body etc. Some people get really heated about it, get frustrated that Canon or whoever can't produce what they want, or that nobody can produce what they want, it's all taken pretty seriously, and I'm as bad, at least I was until tonight.

When I joined this forum I followed lots of threads, mostly lens threads, but also body threads, really to research my next upgrade, what would make the best investment, how can I improve my IQ etc. I just realised tonight that I always study the lens pictures, really examine them, but the body threads like the 5DmkIII threads, I just flick through them, to the point I nearly unfollowed it tonight as I take so little notice of it, and suddenly realised what I was doing.

So did I have an epiphany? Is my subconscious telling me what people have been telling me for 30 years, it's really all about the glass???

To really confirm it I also realised, the only body thread I actually look at properly is the Fujifilm X100 thread, a camera with a fixed lens??

The clues were there really, the two single biggest improvements in my photography were when I started buying primes, and when I started buying expensive glass. ( expensive to me, eg 24-70L Mk2 )

I was sort of 50/50 on the new 5D, the rumoured improvements aren't knocking my socks off, time to start looking at lenses instead :)


EOS R 5D III, 40D, 16-35L 35 ART 50 ART 100L macro, 24-70 L Mk2, 135L 200L 70-200L f4 IS
Hype chimping - The act of looking at your screen after every shot, then wildly behaving like it's the best picture in the world, to try and impress other photographers around you.

  
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AZGeorge
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Mar 26, 2016 18:52 |  #2

welshwizard1971 wrote in post #17948373 (external link)
. . . it's really all about the glass??? . . .

I really really really like good glass but subscribe to another old line. It's really about the human behind the glass.


George
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SkipD
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Mar 26, 2016 21:07 |  #3

AZGeorge wrote in post #17949889 (external link)
I really really really like good glass but subscribe to another old line. It's really about the human behind the glass.

I agree with that, but there's another factor that didn't exist in "the olden days" of film cameras. Our digital cameras are really fancy specialized computers and all computers run on software. While lens optics plays a huge part in making our images, so does the in-camera software (and, of course, the software we use for post-processing). There could easily be bugs in the software (which negatively affect our images) that we are unaware of and could not correct if we knew about them.


Skip Douglas
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Wilt
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Mar 26, 2016 21:21 |  #4

The epiphany is when you realize that going to POTN to look at images representing just how good a body or lens gets, you remember (without being reminded) that you are constrained to images posted about 1280 pixels on a side, which is only a 25% sampling of the actual image's original pixels in the case of a T5i, and only 15% sampling of the actual pixels captured by a 5DS!

Unless someone takes a 1280x1280 section of the original frame to post on POTN, you will never be seeing the original quality. And then you cannot really compare directly because you would be viewing the 5DS image at 71X magnification vs. only at 46X for a 5DII image.

Then, even if you could get to see the RAW files from each camera to try to compare, unless you viewed both images on the same monitor, you still are comparing apples and oranges. And that would also force you to have installed the latest RAW conversion software which is compatible with the latest camera!


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Mar 28, 2016 12:49 |  #5

welshwizard1971 wrote in post #17948373 (external link)
So did I have an epiphany? Is my subconscious telling me what people have been telling me for 30 years, it's really all about the glass???

I think that you may have had a "false epiphany".

For each photo that really catches your eye, it took both a body and a lens to make that photo. Many of the same images that you see in the lens threads are also posted to the camera body threads. I look at photos in the lens threads, then I go to the body threads and see the same photos posted there.

If I take a photo with my 1D4 and the 400 f2.8 and want to share it here on POTN, I am just as likely to share it on the 400 f2.8 thread as I am on the 1D4 owner's thread. In fact, it is likely that I will post it on both threads. Many other POTN members do the same thing.

.


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welshwizard1971
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Mar 28, 2016 14:03 |  #6

Good point, maybe that's why I whistle through the body threads, I've seen the pics before??


EOS R 5D III, 40D, 16-35L 35 ART 50 ART 100L macro, 24-70 L Mk2, 135L 200L 70-200L f4 IS
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Lumens
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Mar 28, 2016 14:11 |  #7

I had an epiphany a couple years back when I realized how badly I suffered from GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome). I owned three bodies and glass to go with each - three complete systems!!! All had very good quality glass, but in reality my photography was only so so.

That is when I started reading and learning. In the last two years all my photography expenses have been towards learning. Here in Arizona we have a fantastic group AHPW (Arizona Highways Photo Workshops) who do an outstanding job at educating the average camera buff to improve his/her photographic abilities. The difference has been amazing - this has been the best investment in photography I could have ever made.

Between reading, videos (You tube and Lynda.com), and AHPW I have had great fun and improved my photography immensely.


FUJI XT-2 & FUJI XT-3 ->
12mm Roki, 16 f1.4, 35 f1.4, 56 f1.2, 80 Macro
10-24, 18-55, 55-200, 100-400

  
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MalVeauX
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Mar 28, 2016 15:47 |  #8

Heya,

Let's turn this around a bit. Say you already have the best glass you're going to get for the next 10 years. But you don't have the best body you'll use the next 10 years.

Now which threads seem more important for you to follow and what are the gears in your head grinding out now?

Very best,


My Flickr (external link) :: My Astrobin (external link)

  
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gonzogolf
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Mar 28, 2016 15:53 |  #9

Its all about the glass until its all about the ISO




  
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BigAl007
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Mar 29, 2016 08:19 |  #10

Another issue for those of us that became photographers in the analogue age is that back then the body didn't matter too much. It was simply a housing for the shutter and film, that allowed us to hang a lens on the front, and provided a reflex viewfinder (if we are limiting ourselves to considering 35mm SLRs). As long as you could easily wind the film, and cock the shutter, set the required shutter speed and load the film, the exact body didn't really matter too much. The lenses were important, as was choosing the most suitable film stock for the task envisioned.

As the ability to integrate electronics into camera bodies improved, then so did the differentiation of camera bodies. Better internal metering systems, and the ability to use the meter readings to set either the aperture or shutter speed, based on the previously set other variable, along with the speed of the film. Of course this also then developed into the ability to set BOTH shutter and aperture with the introduction of program modes. At the same time flash guns (as we used to call them) developed and initially used internal metering to measure the flash output, and eventually the camera's metering system to provide TTL flash metering. Although all of this technology made things simpler for the photographer, none of them seriously changed the fundamentals of what a camera did, and the lens and the film stock was still the ultimate arbiter of image quality. Even the introduction of the Minolta Dynax and in body AF systems didn't make a really significant change to the QUALITY of photographs, that was still down to the lens and the film. You could take a basic SLR, or the top of the range model. If you used the same settings, the same film stock, and of course the same lens then the results would be identical. You never HAD to upgrade the camera body to get better results, as you could always use the better lenses, and the latest film stocks in the body you already had. The differentiations in the bodies were much more to do with convenience and easy of use, not ultimately image quality.

Of course with the advent of electronic sensors, and ultimately the the spatially as well as tonally digitised, digital sensors we use in today's cameras, the choice of camera body took on a whole new importance. Now it seems that the manufacturers are able to segmentize the market not just by convenience factors in bodies as was the case previously, when improvements in film emulsions could be utilised in any existing camera body, but also by pretty fundamental differences in overall image quality thanks to the fixed digital sensor in each camera. So now if you want the latest in sensor technology you may well have to buy a body with many features that you don't actually really need, simply because the advances in one specific area you do need are not available.

It would be really nice to see one of the major manufacturers produce a DSLR with an interchangeable sensor module. In many cases what we want to upgrade is our modern equivalent of film, the sensor. Being able to upgrade your sensor at a reasonable cost would be great, especially if that also lead to the development of specialist units. Monochrome, or high resolution units would become options as they are likely to appeal to many shooters, who wouldn't go and get a dedicated body for such features. If the manufacturer made the units with a consistent electronic interface you could then have the option to upgrade the body with it's AF, metering and flash systems as technology advances, as well as keeping the old "body" and picking up a new sensor as one comes available. Or even keep your old but liked sensor to use with the latest body systems.

The above though is I think unlikely, I'm sure that for the camera manufacturers (if not for the poor retailer who has to stock ALL of the models) that having a very segmented market for a quickly obsolescent product is a much better business proposition.

Alan


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WhidbeyHiker
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Mar 29, 2016 08:38 |  #11

It's all about the bank account.




  
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kf095
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Mar 29, 2016 10:33 |  #12

I'm taking pictures daily, processing in LR and else, also printing in the darkroom weekly.
I took over 100K of pictures by now on film and digital. Biggest amount of it was with Canon 500D. I've had 5D as well for years and recently switched to 5DMKII just because it is "new".

I sold bunch of L lenses. I read about some new cameras, but zero interest in buying of them. I have tried bunch of film gear and after few weeks it is always for sale.
On digital I'm finding what 500D with pancake on it is all I need and my film photography is covered with two simple, no electronics cameras and couple of lenses.

I opened this thread to read, because my 5DMII and 50L are sitting almost unused. I forgot then I used 70-200 F4 last time. Yes, it is visible better IQ with L and FF, but I have no effort to haul this kit even at home. 500D with pancake and 5DMKII are in the same bag. I reach for 500D all the time.
Canon EF-S 24mm f/2.8 STM is often surprising me under good light. Not L, but superior to old kit lens, which never impressed me with color rendering.


M-E and ME blog (external link). Flickr (external link). my DigitaL and AnaLog Gear.

  
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NASS ­ Photo
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Mar 29, 2016 12:44 |  #13

WhidbeyHiker wrote in post #17953140 (external link)
It's all about the bank account.

How true. At least for this retired person.


NickS

Canon 5DMIII; Canon EF35mm, f/1.4L; EF85mm, f/1.8; EF135mm, f/2.0L; EF200mm, f/2.8L.

  
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