Flash Help

Good morning everyone,

I have recently starting getting back into photography and my focus has changed from wildlife to people. I am trying to catch up on as much flash information as I possibly can because I never used one in the past.

I am looking into speedlites and I am wondering for a beginner in speedlites, which ones would be a good investment for me? I know you can never have too many, but I would like to only purchase about three. What direction should I be looking?

Thank you

In my view, getting speedlites that offer ETTL along with manual exposure options ensure maximum flexibility.

Manual only looks less expensive when starting and manual is a useful learning method, however, replacing the manual units with ETTL units when you realize you want its capabilities means more total cost than necessary.

Also, making sure that the speedlites have internal radio triggers that support both ETTL and manual with ability to group the lights to support main/fill/kicker lighting scenarios.

The camera system you have will dictate, to a certain extent your options.

If you shoot Canon, Nikon or Sony your options include:
1) Camera manufacturer system
2) Godox X-1 system (currently the most extensive in flash power options)
3) Nissin Air System
4) Phottix (also has extended power range but reports are that its firmware performance is spotty.)

If only Canon or Nikon then Yongnou is also an option.

Price/performance its probably Godox/Yongnou, then Nissin, then Phottix, then camera manufacturers.

Since you are starting from scratch, taking the time to decide on a single system will offer more useful options than buy a cobbled together collection of lights from multiple manufacturers.

Kenny Thompson wrote in post #17951637
Good morning everyone,

I have recently starting getting back into photography and my focus has changed from wildlife to people. I am trying to catch up on as much flash information as I possibly can because I never used one in the past.

I am looking into speedlites and I am wondering for a beginner in speedlites, which ones would be a good investment for me? I know you can never have too many, but I would like to only purchase about three. What direction should I be looking?

Thank you

Heya,

Really depends on application and properties and budget.

But, since you said speedlites, I assume you want portability and wireless, so you're not looking to use strobes.

I would suggest a simple speedlite system from Yongnuo: The Yongnuo 685 series. Inexpensive, but has HSS, ETTL, or just good old manual with very good output. Every unit has a built in wifi receiver, so not transceivers needed separately. Also, you can control their power output, zoom level, etc, remotely from a controller. You only need a single controller for the entire fleet of speedlites. A single TX-560 will control more groups in manual mode (which the YN685 supports). The TX-622 will control less groups but gives you ETTL & HSS if you need that (also supported by the YN685).

So I would get:

Yongnuo 685 x 3
Yongnuo TX-560 x 1
Yongnuo TX-622 x 2
Batteries

From there, just add good stands, good modifiers, and you're set.

But, before buying, I would ask... describe the application and settings you'll be using the lights? Studio? Outdoor? Portability a must? Size limitations? Again budget? How large of modifiers are you planning to use?

Very best,

Thank you for the advice so far. It is very appreciated.

I am running a Canon 7D to me portability is a must. It will be 90% outdoor shots with about 10% inside shots. It will be me most of the time with no assistant so simplicity would also be appreciated.

Use,

Flash as key, Sun as rim, and Ambient as fill when outside, at least this is a good set up to start with. One portable kit. Get an s-type flash holder like this:

S-Type flash holder

Learn to find 'good light', and only having one flash on the stand will be just fine. Two will also work great, and and aren't too bad to manage if one is bare flash.

this image has two.. key camera right, bare flash acting as sun/rim light behind and camera left. (it was a cloudy day)

Photo from ksbal's gallery.
Image hosted by forum (756288)

In the decision process, consider features you need (or not). Some flash units have:

1. Manual power control only, vs. what is called 'photosensor' power control, vs. 'eTTL' camera-commanded power control
   
2. Zoom heads to spread the light at an angle sufficient for use of a particular FL, vs. fixed angle flashhead
   
3. IR remote commands for ETTL communication vs. radio remote commands for ETTL communication
   
4. Ability of the flash to support HSS vs. not
   
5. Manual flash power control quite limited (e.g. M/4) vs. not so limited (M/256)
   
6. Ability to be used with external AA battery packs vs. not
   
7. Greater power & range, vs. lesser power & range
   
8. Tilt and swivel of flash head vs. one or neither capability
   

Kenny Thompson wrote in post #17951782
Thank you for the advice so far. It is very appreciated.

I am running a Canon 7D to me portability is a must. It will be 90% outdoor shots with about 10% inside shots. It will be me most of the time with no assistant so simplicity would also be appreciated.

Heya,

Ok, so how about fighting the sun? Will you need the ability to shoot in broad day light? To over power the sun you'll need significantly more power than a single speedlite. I sometimes use 2 speedlites in a modifier at 1/1 power each to achieve over-powering the sun during late day or early morning sun, when it's not as bright as mid-day, but still bright, and that's at close proximity in a 31" modifier. So, it really does take some serious muscle to do it in the light, unless your goal is only fill. You can use speedlites as fill in sun relatively ok.

I have no assistant either, so I can appreciate simplicity. Which is why I suggested a system that is controlled remotely with as few parts/batteries as possible.

For stands, I use boom stands & brolly boxes. Brolly boxes are umbrella style (black back, silver interior) softboxes (velcro white front). Light, small, collapse, but produce light like a softbox. I literally stopped using my other modifiers and just use these. They're inexpensive too. I use Godox 31" & 47" brolly boxes ($20 & $30!). I use a Cheetah Boom Stand as my primary. I use basic stands for anything else (cheap $10 ones are fine). I do however bungee & stake everything into the ground. It's a must to me, to avoid falls from wind.

If you feel you need to really beat down the sun, I would explore something like a Flashpoint 360.

Very best,

The 7D supports the Canon 600EX-RT radio based ETTL system.
Given that capability, the Yongnou 600EX-RT is probably the most flexible, least expensive option.
There is also a YN E3RT controller if you don't want the weight of the speedlite on the camera. It controls the remote lights via the same LCD interface. Using the 600EX-RT system also permits using the camera menu to control the speedlites.

The 600EX-RT system introduced Groups to speedlite lighting scheme control. This feature permits setting each group to ETTL or Manual as well as controlling power or Flash Exposure Compensation (FEC). In my view, its the best system for controlling speedlites.

HERE is an article describing how I used Gr mode for headshots when I was shooting with Canon gear.

Umbrella frame soft boxes are great modifiers. Light, easy to setup and use. They have two draw backs; A) many have U channel metal frames that are way too easy to bend. Spend some time and a little more money to find options that have fiberglas rods making up the frame rather than U channel. This is the one I found. B) they offer only limited tilting relative to the light stand. There are mounting options that increase the tilting ability. One of the best, although a bit expensive is the Phottix mini-boom. It also offers the ability to add multiple speedlites inside the modifier when more lighting power is required.

dmward wrote in post #17951883
The 7D supports the Canon 600EX-RT radio based ETTL system.

Mine only supports the three group light based system. Am I unaware of a firmware update that supports the RT system?

oldvultureface wrote in post #17951929
Mine only supports the three group light based system. Am I unaware of a firmware update that supports the RT system?

Oh, I thought it was a 2012 camera. Maybe its just the 7DII.

The good news is that the YN600RT Gr mode works with older cameras. But, the on camera menu capabilities are limited to the 3 Groups.

Can the TX-622 trigger the TX-560? Are they compatible?

Kenny Thompson wrote in post #17952336
Can the TX-622 trigger the TX-560? Are they compatible?

They are both compatible with the YN685's.

You don't need them both at the same time, it's one or the other. They both trigger all your flashes. You don't need one per flash. It's one TX controller and they wirelessly talk to all your flashes. You don't need extra transceivers. That's the beauty of the system.

The TX560 is for manual groups, more groups (up to 6), for more flashes and explicit control in manual mode.

The TX622 is for manual, ETTL and HSS groups (less groups though, not that this is an issue with a few flashes) and explicit control on these modes.

The YN685's can be controlled from both protocols, either as manual flashes or as ETTL/HSS flashes.

If you know you won't need ETTL/HSS, then you simply get the TX560 and you're done.

If you feel you may want HSS, then get the TX622 as well as the TX560. They're inexpensive, so you can get both and have all options possible.

Very best,

Everyone thank you for such great help and information, you don't know how much it is appreciated. I think I am going to go with 2 YN560-IV, 1 YN685 and a YN-622.

Does this sound like a good beginner set up?

Kenny Thompson wrote in post #17952417
Everyone thank you for such great help and information, you don't know how much it is appreciated. I think I am going to go with 2 YN560-IV, 1 YN685 and a YN-622.

Does this sound like a good beginner set up?

Not quite what I'd do. And you have to be very careful with model numbers. The YN622 is a single transceiver. The YN622-TX is a controller, and sends signals to transceivers or built in wifi receivers (such as found in the 560 IV & 685).

The 560 IV's are excellent manual flashes. Built in wifi receivers. Controlled by a single YN560-TX controller. All manual.

The single YN685 really only serves as being a single flash that has ETTL/HSS as an option. Nothing wrong with that. But it tells me you don't need ETTL/HSS very much, since you're willing to have a single HSS capable speedlite, rather than several.

I would get the YN560-TX controller to control all three flash (560 IV's and the 685 in manual mode). Let's you have up to 6 groups if you get more flashes and want to expand. Also the 560-TX can relay signals to other TX controllers if you ever further expand beyond that too. Then, if you feel the need to have ETTL/HSS control off camera for your single 685, then add a single YN622-TX controller for it (you may expand later).

Overall, if you know you only need manual flashes, just get the 560-TX & as many 560IV's as you want. This is the best for cost with great quality portable flash system you can go with, for manual.

If you feel you may want to gang up a few and do ETTL or HSS (mainly HSS), then get a 560-TX & a 622-TX along with as many 685's as you want. Full feature, has everything, does it all.

Very best,

What route would you go without breaking the bank? I am also thinking of purchasing the Westcott perfect pair kit.