Orion but...should it be better?

So I shot an Orion stack the other night in Prescott...

But should it be better, and what could I have done better?
Also, in Cam Raw, what should my white balance and tint be to get a more natural color?
Should I just select the 10 second subs?

Canon 6D
300mm f/4L
1.4x II Extender (420mm effective)
Tracked with iOptron Skytracker with amazing help from a Manfrotto 410 geared head (seriously, almost a must have tool!)

170 light frames (a good number at 8 seconds, many more at 10 seconds, f/5.6 or /8, and ranging from 500-1000 ISO).
Total time: just over 30 minutes worth of subs.

24 Dark (at 10 seconds ea)

20 Bias

DSS -> ACR -> CC

DSS is Kappa-Sigma, no drizzle, and some tweaking to make a fairly "flat" imagine to take over to PS/CC, however, I worry that in the flattening process/efforts that I might have inadvertently increased noise by bringing the darks up too much.

Any thoughts? All CC welcome!

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/FTcT​MZ

Not bad at all. There is a lot more there with more time. You can combine subs of 10, 30, 60, 240 seconds and bring out everything from the faint in the outter clouds and still keep detail in the core with the short subs. your are probably a bit bluish..but not bad. With filters you can get a bunch of red Ha in the surrounding clouds. It looks like you may have clipped the black point a bit which will have lost some faint cloud details. You have a great image already. I sure you can continue and improve on it. Orion is kind of addictive like that. I will get a link to show you how to process images with different sub lengths.

https://mophopix.smugm​ug.com …essing-Videos-1/i-rS8MwvG (play the movie on the right of the screen)

Here is one of my images, in no way the best, but I know where it is real quick

http://www.astrobin.co​m/33232/

IMAGE LINK: https://www.flickr.com …221/in/datepost​ed-public/

Orion JPEG AT8IN Wider for 8x11.5

hey Toxic!

gawd that's a great shot!
What was the equivalent focal length on the scope?


I guess I feel like I should have more detail and less noise for 30 minutes of exposure?
As in, maybe I should have shot longer subs, or I bollocksed something up in post?

thanks for the kind words either way, and yes Orion is addictive! I feel like this low moon cycle is my last good shot at
it before it's gone for the summer...

--mac

The AT8IN scope is f/4 800mm equiv. You may set your lens to f/4 and use 800, 1600, or 3200iso. I would suggest f/4 1600ISO and get 30x10 sec and 30x60 sec and combine them with the process in that video I linked. There is a lot of blue (OIII) and red (Ha) in both the Orion Nebula and the Running Man just above it. It's a great bright nebula that lets you collect subs quickly and try different sub lengths and processing techniques, which help you lead into other targets......and scopes, and cameras, and mods, and filters, and mounts....and so on. Keep up the good work. You are off to a great start already.

first thing I've checked is your Histogram . You have clipped the BP to the far left side and I've tried bringing it back up but with this image I could not do it . Since the BP is clipped it makes it extremely hard to correctly edit for proper RGB colors . Editing astroimages are quite different from editing regular photography . Next I see the ISO range you shot in (500-1000) . For digital that's really too low . You should shoot 800-1600 or higher if your camera allows higher ISO and no less than f/4.5 minimum . The wider the aperture the better but providing your in dark sites and not LP sites . Short exposures lack the data to make a good image even with a lot of images stacked . Meaning if the data is not there it's not going to make a good image . Undoubtedly you must have your setup on some type of tracking device cause a 300mm for 10 secs would have given you nothing but star trails and a blurred cloud . Hopefully you are stacking before you are doing any kind of editing . Hopefully you have saved that as a separate image before editing . If you can post that original image before your edit perhaps we can check it out and see what needs to be done .

Now the best way to capture good images is by collecting a lot of data (signal) which the way to do that is to take longer exposures like 30 secs up to 5 mins max providing your tracking device is aligned properly and allows exposures that long without trailing . Your f/stop should be wide open , and use higher ISO far all images except for short ones to use for filling in the bright heart of Orion . This is where 3-10 sec exposures come into play cause then you are concentrating on strictly the trapezium (heart) of Orion which is used in stacking to avoid the burnt out center . When you have succeeded doing this part then you need to conquer the proper editing of the RGB all the meanwhile keeping a close watch on your histogram as to not clip the BP . Some astroimages require a lot of stretching but if stretched too much you can blow the RGB as well as the BP .

There are videos on youtube and other web sites that show how to edit astroimages , you might consider checking them out and seeing how it's done . Good luck .

Okay...

I think I fixed a few things.
This is DSS at 3X Drizzle (fo shizzle) but obviously it's focused in on just M42 (which is ok). I then tweaked colors and sharpness
and levels in PS, but with a much lighter hand...still trying to nail the color down.
I think also that some of the "noise" I was seeing is actually banding issues..yikes!

You were all right about the black point so I did not push it nearly as much, though perhaps it's still too far crunched.

Toxic, I would have shot at f/4 but with the 300 f/4L on the 1.4X I only get 5.6, and of course f/8 with the 2x III, though
I have to admit the thought of 600mm pointed at Orion is a happy one! I will look and try your alternative process for sure!

Celestron thanks for the tips! I'm definitely using longer subs and higher ISO and a plan to vary the exposure to avoid blowing
out the heart... I do stack in DSS on an ancient Windows 7 PC and then drag the TIFF into ACR, and then into the PS/CC desktop.

If I can swing it I'll head to Congress AZ, or Prescott again (which have darker skies) and try before the moon comes back...
the weather starts tomorrow afternoon though and that's kinking my style.

thanks for the ideas and tips so far!! Here's the update:

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/FSMK​Zo

This is much much better ! Only seeing it on my cellphone but later I'll check it on a computer but I can tell this is 100% better ! Your coming along fine and will be producing pro Astro shortly . Congratulations on a job well done.

rogue.guineapig wrote in post #17962387
Okay...

I think I fixed a few things.
This is DSS at 3X Drizzle (fo shizzle) but obviously it's focused in on just M42 (which is ok). I then tweaked colors and sharpness
and levels in PS, but with a much lighter hand...still trying to nail the color down.
I think also that some of the "noise" I was seeing is actually banding issues..yikes!

You were all right about the black point so I did not push it nearly as much, though perhaps it's still too far crunched.

Toxic, I would have shot at f/4 but with the 300 f/4L on the 1.4X I only get 5.6, and of course f/8 with the 2x III, though
I have to admit the thought of 600mm pointed at Orion is a happy one! I will look and try your alternative process for sure!

Celestron thanks for the tips! I'm definitely using longer subs and higher ISO and a plan to vary the exposure to avoid blowing
out the heart... I do stack in DSS on an ancient Windows 7 PC and then drag the TIFF into ACR, and then into the PS/CC desktop.

If I can swing it I'll head to Congress AZ, or Prescott again (which have darker skies) and try before the moon comes back...
the weather starts tomorrow afternoon though and that's kinking my style.

thanks for the ideas and tips so far!! Here's the update:

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/FSMK​Zo Orion-7-3x by rogue.guineapig, on Flickr

Tremendous improvement.
Seems you know how to move at speed of light!

I say before Orion disappears for the summer, try to go over Flame nebula and if you dare, that Dark Nebula: The mighty "Horsehead", both very close to Alnitak, little higher and to the left of location now you are shooting.

You know with lowering Orion to Western horizon, every night, these days, sorry nights, you may have to wait for the next winter to fine Orion again.

Excellent job and keep up the great work.

hey guys!


thanks for the kind words! That second photo is just the same stack reprocessed correctly with yall's advice taken into account.
Samsen I'd love to shoot that section of sky again...tonight is of course the new moon, and of course it's clouded over and going to rain
in the desert for the first time in 3 months. :/
The Horsehead would be an amazing shot...however, don't I need an IR cam or an Ha filter or something of that nature to make it work?


On the other hand, summer is coming, which means the Milky Way, the Lagoon, Andromeda (later on) and so many other good ones...
I swear, this geared tripod head makes the iOptron a snap...best pairing ever.
Astro is a nice break from products (which I shoot all the time).

There is alot of jewels in the MW. The MW has more objects for imaging than any where else in the night sky . I know you have a tracking device but if you only had a telescope to see all the jewels would change your thoughts on the MW. A good capture of the MW shows alot that just goes over their head cause they only see the MW as a whole. Wait til you see the jewels with your own eyes !

Hi All this is one i did a few years ago with my Canon 60D & Skywatcher 200p on a GOTO mount
Hope you like

Thanks

Sam

Rogue. Great improvement in you revision. I never do Drizzle in DSS unless I've done a big crop. And I usually do all the cropping in PS anyway. I'll send you a couple more tutorial links that I have found very helpful in the past.


Here are links I refer to:
http://flintstonestarg​azing.com/?s=deepskyst​acker
step by step for DSS

http://www.myastronomy​journal.com …AIP/C002-M31-Walkthrough/
excellent walkthrough in PS

http://www.youtube.com …er_embedded&v=e​0JSTF8SGi4!
Step by step using both DSS and PS

https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1241460
a right up by TC_Fenua from this forum

http://mophopix.smugmu​g.com …p#!i=2369399143​&k=BcwQ5b4
processing videos I have found and put up on my site.

sam1965uk wrote in post #17965695
Hi All this is one i did a few years ago with my Canon 60D & Skywatcher 200p on a GOTO mount
Hope you like

Thanks

Sam

[HOSTED PHOTO: link failed]

[HOSTED PHOTO: link failed]

Not trying to be rude but you need to post your pictures in the section called "You Don't Need A Telescope" or start your own thread . Don't hi-jack someones thread they already started with their own image unless you ask the OP if it's ok to post in their thread .

hey guys!


Toxic, I agree with the drizzle...it actually would only finish the render if I cropped it pretty tight in DSS, so I figured it was worth a run.
Thanks for the links! I've actually watched the Forrest Tanaka one several times--he's great!
The others are all new to me, so I'll have to take a look...the the flint stone link seems to be dead however...?

Well the clouds are sticking around and the moon in being a drag already...seems Orion is slipping away. By the next clear day the moon will be a challenge and by the next
new moon I think Orion will have departed the Northern Hemisphere skies...but perhaps you gents know better? I'm open to info on this!
I am excited for summer though, with Andromeda, the Lagoon, and the thick bits of the Milky Way coming back, and a trip to CO and the darker areas planned.

A question though...

I've been eyeballing the iOptron...that's an equatorial mount, correct? Not an Alt-Az mount? In other words it doesn't rotate with the stars, it merely follows them, yes?
This has to introduce tracking error at some point, correct?

The ioptron is like any other eq mount. It has to be pointed in the general direction of the north star and it should be leveled then properly aligned. There will always be a slight amount of tracking error but that's where tweaking the settings come in handy. But from all the images I've seen with the ioptron used has been better than most images I have ever seen . Thing is technology has been able to insert info in the computer data base to allow the mount to move in exact time speed as the stars seem to move. One thing I might mention is actually the stars never move. Our earth as we know it rotates on it's axes which make our stars seem like they are moving when in fact it's earths rotation . When you see everything at night rise in the East and set in the West ...., the true factor is our earth rotates from West to East directions. I'll leave you with that to ponder .