Would you pay HIGHER THAN REFURB price for used gear?

mpix345 wrote in post #17968153
I assume that refurb will continue the win in a landslide over used. The trickier question to me is "Can you be patient and wait for a refurb sale or will you pay more for used to get it now?" For Pros that is not an issue, I suppose, because they need what they need, but for us hobbyists do we have the self-control??

Why yes as evidenced by the fact that I don't own a 6D yet. I"ve seen some used listed for more than you can get a new one with a printer.

There are some people out there who just seem to have no idea. A guy I do some engineering design work for will sometimes put product up on Ebay on a 14 day auction without a buy it now. He uses this as cheap advertising, and it will usually generate three or four direct sales from people contacting him outside of Ebay. Over the years I have never known the final selling price of the product in the listing to less than the full retail price of the product. Usually it is enough more than retail to cover the Ebay fees too. People just get carried away because it's an auction a lo of the time, but there are a lot of folks who don't even bother to check the retail price of a product. It's not like this isn't pretty specialist stuff either. People are just dim.

Alan

Oh and as we don't have an official Refurb shop in the UK I haven't voted. Canon Refurb, and also the Loyalty Program are both US only.

Bassat wrote in post #17968172
My personal opinion is once it is used by a consumer, it is used. I don't differentiate where it came from before it was used. New, used, refurbished, are all the same to me. Does it matter to anyone else?

I can see how it might. If you trust the seller, you buy a product that has been tested and found dependable. I just bought a 24-105 refurb..... but I did look to see if one was available here from someone I trusted.

I do agree, it used to be more of a risk because Canon only provided a 90 day warranty.

Now to answer your question directly. I do think a refurb unit has less value on the used market than a new one. Perception is reality.....and many people believe refurbs are a lesser product. Plus, you don't get that nice lens or camera box with a refurb.

Phoenixkh wrote in post #17969156
I can see how it might. If you trust the seller, you buy a product that has been tested and found dependable. I just bought a 24-105 refurb..... but I did look to see if one was available here from someone I trusted.

I do agree, it used to be more of a risk because Canon only provided a 90 day warranty.

Now to answer your question directly. I do think a refurb unit has less value on the used market than a new one. Perception is reality.....and many people believe refurbs are a lesser product. Plus, you don't get that nice lens or camera box with a refurb.

That is what I was looking for. I don't understand it, but I suppose I have to accept it. Just a bit hard to wrap my mind around the thinking that says, "Yes, this camera with 15,000 shots on it and no warranty is worth more than that one with fewer (?) shots and a 12-month warranty."

As a side note, the 60D refurb I bought from Canon had < 100 shots on it. The 70D had 1800. I don't know what, if anything, that implies. I can't remember how many shots were on my 6D. I sold my refurbished 450D to a buddy. He is still using it. I've never had a problem with refurbished bodies.

One explanation for paying more for used than Canon-sold refurbished could be merely the fact that the buyer is in an area of the world where duties/VAT makes their local prices a significant amount higher than U.S. retail prices, so a used product is a bargain because Canon USA refurb pricing is not available to them. It also explains why on eBay ads have been seen to have offered/purchased used goods at apparently 'higher than (US) MSRP'!

My view on this is highly influenced on my experience with sales in the automotive industry....

If it is a pretty new camera with low shutter count, it is worth more than refurb. Say the camera has 10k shutter count. That camera works great and every part of that camera was well taken car of and every part of that camera has 10k on it.

Also, not all used gear has the same value. Too many people look at a camera and see "used" and think, oh its worth half the new value no matter what. Well, what if you had one camera body with 10k shutter count and another of the same model with 75k shutter count. OR one is in mint condition and you can't even tell it's used while the other has a few scratches and signs of wear?

If it is a fairly used camera, then id buy refurb first. If I know the camera is basically brand new, I'd buy used over refurb.

People forget that refurb is used with a couple new parts while the rest is still used. You don't know what was replaced. Some parts could have more wear than others. They aren't always replaced with new parts either, sometimes they are just replaced with other used parts that work. This is very common in the automotive industry as well. You also have no way of knowing how many "miles" are on the rest of the camera.

Bassat wrote in post #17969177
That is what I was looking for. I don't understand it, but I suppose I have to accept it. Just a bit hard to wrap my mind around the thinking that says, "Yes, this camera with 15,000 shots on it and no warranty is worth more than that one with fewer (?) shots and a 12-month warranty."

As a side note, the 60D refurb I bought from Canon had < 100 shots on it. The 70D had 1800. I don't know what, if anything, that implies. I can't remember how many shots were on my 6D. I sold my refurbished 450D to a buddy. He is still using it. I've never had a problem with refurbished bodies.

Your 60D actually has more than 100 on. Most likely several thousand but your shutter count won't tell you that. read my previous post.

The 70D had 1800, you know every part of that camera is the same age, and it is proven to have no issues.

BlakeC wrote in post #17969257
People forget that refurb is used with a couple new parts while the rest is still used. You don't know what was replaced. Some parts could have more wear than others. They aren't always replaced with new parts either, sometimes they are just replaced with other used parts that work. This is very common in the automotive industry as well. You also have no way of knowing how many "miles" are on the rest of the camera.

You assume refurb means borken or damaged, which is not accurate.

travisvwright wrote in post #17969262
You assume refurb means borken or damaged, which is not accurate.

No..it means refurbished.

This sums up what I know it to mean "Refurbishment is the distribution of products (usually electronics and electricals) that have been previously returned to a manufacturer or vendor for various reasons. Refurbished products are normally tested for functionality and defects before they are sold. It is repaired from the manufacture and resold."

Seeing what happens in the automotive industry, I know that parts are often taken from other not working items and used to create one working item. This results in 1 part that has an unknown amount of usage and wear.

This may not be the case with Canon. They may actually replace defective parts with brand new parts. They could be just putting used working items in its place. They may just be a working open boxed item that was returned (not sure if they do this), or some other reason we are not aware of yet. Either way....it is unknown.

Like I said.... used items do not have a set value just because they are used. The value scale with the amount of usage and condition. Just like any other used item.

Buying a refurbished lens doesn't necessarily mean it was refurbished.

delta0014 wrote in post #17969277
Buying a refurbished lens doesn't necessarily mean it was refurbished.

What does it mean to you?

many times, you dont have an option to buy refurbed, so you buy used for a HIGHER price.

BlakeC wrote in post #17969281
What does it mean to you?

I just meant that it doesn't necessarily mean anything was replaced or done to the lens other then look at it. Could of just been a return that they can't sell as new again.

Refurbished lenses doesn't mean that any refurbishment actually took place, although granted you would probably never know if something was done.

BlakeC wrote in post #17969281
What does it mean to you?

Here's something from an article written in 2011. It is hearsay I suppose but it is what a cannon support rep told the author:

Source: http://cheesycam.com …furbished-cameras-lenses/


Personally I'm glad people erroneously think Refurbished means broken as it the fewer people know, the lower the demand, the better price for me.

delta0014 wrote in post #17969294
I just meant that it doesn't necessarily mean anything was replaced or done to the lens other then look at it. Could of just been a return that they can't sell as new again.

Refurbished lenses doesn't mean that any refurbishment actually took place, although granted you would probably never know if something was done.

travisvwright wrote in post #17969307
Here's something from an article written in 2011. It is hearsay I suppose but it is what a cannon support rep told the author:

Source: http://cheesycam.com …furbished-cameras-lenses/


Personally I'm glad people erroneously think Refurbished means broken as it the fewer people know, the lower the demand, the better price for me.

EXACTLY my point. I'm not saying it means they were broken. You just don't know.

AGAIN:
low usage, basically new gear = prefer over refurb
moderate usage and wear =less than refurb
refurb (unknown usage) = prefer over well used item

Don't think that I am saying refurb is bad or used is better. You just know what you are getting with a lightly used, like-new condition camera vs a refurb.