help with single off camera flash setup (with HSS), ~$1000 budget

Hey everyone, I'll preface this post by saying I'm a complete flash noob. My only flash experience is with a 430EX that I bought 10 years ago and have only ever used in the camera hotshoe, and I only used it when absolutely necessary (ie. family portraits, indoors, when there isn't enough natural light). Everything I talk about below is based on all the research I have done in the last 2 weeks and based on what other members have said they are using.

I'm looking to get an OCF HHS setup because of all of the great pictures in this thread: https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1427264 (examples: https://photography-on-the.net …p?p=17541296&i=​i148069440, https://photography-on-the.net …hp?p=17551533&i​=i18318135, https://photography-on-the.net …p?p=17768930&i=​i104140090, https://photography-on-the.net …p?p=17820999&i=​i151470197).

So I'm trying to figure out the best setup for my specific uses. I have 2 kids, with another due in 2 weeks. I am not a professional photographer, I have all of this equipment to shoot my family and take pictures of friends and their kids.

My ideal use case: Taking pictures of my kids in an open field, at golden hour (morning or evening), being able to capture wide open (1.4-2.8), and not have to worry about the background getting washed out (ideal shots like sample images I linked above). I'd also love to use it for our Christmas pictures and other holidays and family gatherings. 90% of the time, I'll be using the flash with bright sun that I need to overpower.

Equipment I'm considering: (http://i.imgur.com/V2Y​y0ve.png)

Flash: Either Rovelight 600B, or the new XPLOR 600/Cheetahstand CL-600X

Trigger: Either the new Flashpoint R2, or Godox X1-C

Softbox: Paul C Bluff 47" Octabox & Grid

Stand: Manfrotto 420B ($192, not sure if this is overkill for my uses, would love to save money on this if possible - http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …KCAy5u2-MsCFZWFaQoddhQPoA).

The above equipment puts me right around $1000 or less depending on whether the rovelight is on sale.

I initially had my heart set on the Rovelight, but then I started reading about the CL-600X and how it seems like an improved rovelight, but I'm not sure I can justify the cost increase over the RL600B.

Also, I get consistently confused when reading about TTL. I'm not sure if I really need it. I'd love to buy non-TTL flashes, since they cost significantly less. I'm open to any and all ideas/suggestions and appreciate any input.

Thanks for reading my book

I would suggest the Rovelight. TTL will be nice to have on the rare occasion you might want it.

Check out this guys work, pretty much all he uses is a Rovelight and PCB Octobox

https://www.facebook.c​om …iscoJoeyHernand​ez?fref=ts

If you think you would be fine with manual get the RoveLight. Its two biggest limitations though are lack of an ecosystem of compatible flashes if you ever want to expand beyond your single light setup and its poor remote which lacks an LCD display. FWIW I have upgraded my RoveLight to the AD600B (TTL version). You lose between 1/3 to a full stop of light (probably more in HSS) compared to RoveLight depending on the modifier but it's a much better light feature-wise.

I'd rather have TTL than HHS or hypersync capability, ND filters are easy to work with. The more power, the better.

Guess I'll go against the grain. Personally I would go with the full Godox system. It allows you to add other levels of power with all the features like real HSS and TTL - or skip it and save money on manual only. I had a Rovelight - sent it back due to the trigger being crap - maybe they've improved it - and it's pretty big.

I've got Phottix Odin Triggers, 2 Canon 430EXII, AD-360 manual and TTL, Godox Li-ion speedlights and X1 trigger. If I had to choose just one light and trigger it would be the AD-360 and X1. I've had maybe 2 circumstances where the power of the AD360 was borderline. I haven't decided if I'll pick up another AD360 or move up to the 600.

Downfall of the 360 is also one of its benefits. The battery. You have to deal with cables and other parts rather than a single self contained unit - on the flip side it lasts forever!

First let's get the technology right; The Rovelight does not do HSS. It illuminates a scene with the tail of its flash when triggered using a device that is capable of signaling the camera for FP-sync. PocketWizard developed this hack for its ControlTL trigger systems and branded it "HyperSync).
To get images similar to those linked requires a trigger that signals the camera that a device is in the hotshoe that supports FP-sync. The illumination from the Rovelight is now a constant source and the shutter speed impacts exposure along with ISO and F stop.

If you decide to use the "HyperSync" approach, make sure you select an FP-sync trigger that enables fine tuning the timing for the FP-sync signal. This helps optimize the flash exposure.

High Speed Sync was developed by camera manufacturers to support FP-sync. When the speedlite (or strobe) is set to HSS it generates a continuos flat light output for sufficient time to permit the shutter slit to travel across the image plane. The camera has to know there is a device in the hotshoe capable of supporting the rapid pulsing. With Canon, its speedlites are switched to HSS and that sends the signal to the camera to change to Fp sync timing when the shutter is set to a speed greater than its X sync speed.

Godox (Cheetah) lights support the rapid pulsing required for HSS shooting. The X system triggers and lights permit the same auto switching when the camera shutter speed is set to a speed greater than x sync if HSS is selected. The AD360II lights are TTL. The AD600 is either TTL or manual depending on the model. All support HSS with X system triggers.

Bottomline, HyperSync is a hack that enable old technology (Voltage power controlled) strobes to work beyond x sync. Godox and others have implemented IGBT technology and use it to support HSS with rapid pulsing the same way that speedlites do.

Exposure control is trial and error with HyperSync approach since its impossible to meter the strobe generated constant light. HSS with a TTL capable flash is metered by the camera using the TTL capabilities. HSS in manual mode is also a trial and error situation. Depending on camera Flash Exposure Lock capabilities it may be possible to measure the flash exposure then lock it using FEL and shot multiple images without having each image flash exposure read via TTL.

Thank you all for your responses and advice.

dmward, I think you have convinced me that it is worth paying more to get true rapid pulsing (HSS) support.

Now this next question will really reveal my lack of knowledge...do I really need the TTL version? My understanding is that the TTL version would look "through the lens" to determine exposure settings, whereas the manual version has no such exposure metering (only on the flash itself). I'm torn since the TTL version is $750 and sold out everywhere, whereas the 600BM is on Amazon for $550 right now. I'm eyeing this one: http://www.amazon.com …s-0-01-2-5/dp/B01B2OLY7U/ and then purchasing this transmitter: http://www.amazon.com …eras-X1C-T/dp/B017HA0T8S/

Since I'm just shooting pictures of my kids and friends/family, is it worth the extra money (and extra wait time) for TTL? I see all sorts of amazing pictures with the rovelight, which I think is manual only (maybe I'm wrong on this).

What do you all think?

Am I wrong about TTL and how useful it would really be for me? Is the only advantage of TTL the exposure metering at the camera, or are there other benefits?

Thank you all again for your help!

TTL or manual, either way, they both have learning curves. Manual is the great way to learn and really understand what is going on and how to get the right light for the picture. TTL is awesome if you have rapidly changing conditions - and again, understanding your camera metering and how it performs is essencial.

If you know you may be shooting under rapid changing conditions, it is the advantage to the TTL set up. Another suggestion... get the manual set up first, and save the pennies, then get a TTL version compatible with the first later, and you can have two lights to work with in the future.

eleazar123 wrote in post #17969743
My ideal use case: Taking pictures of my kids in an open field, at golden hour (morning or evening), being able to capture wide open (1.4-2.8), and not have to worry about the background getting washed out (ideal shots like sample images I linked above). I'd also love to use it for our Christmas pictures and other holidays and family gatherings. 90% of the time, I'll be using the flash with bright sun that I need to overpower.

Also, I get consistently confused when reading about TTL. I'm not sure if I really need it. I'd love to buy non-TTL flashes, since they cost significantly less. I'm open to any and all ideas/suggestions and appreciate any input.

Heya,

I do just this.

TTL will not help you here honestly. Even when it works, it will not likely work the way you want it to with a back-lit subject, wide open, with ND filters in place to be able to shoot at F1.4 to F2.8. You will shoot manual for this. TTL is great in many ways, but I don't think TTL on strobes is worth while for most uses--especially not golden hour field use with kids and wide aperture. Manual is pretty much the only way to go for that strong sun back-lit approach.

HSS is the way to go, no matter what method you use. Sure, you could use ND filter stacks, but I'll just say, you'll need 4~6 stops depending on how bright it is. And until you've had to work with that, I would not commit to that being your ONLY solution. I did that for a while, and eventually it was just too cumbersome with children--they give you no breaks, nor help. Kids make it harder. So to make it easier, I keep HSS as the tool because that's one less filter to deal with, less issues with focus, less issues with figuring exposure, etc. I use a light meter and HSS and a 600ws strobe (rovelight). I keep it simple since the kids don't.

Get any HSS capable 600ws strobe. Godox, Rovelight, etc. Whatever you think. Get a seriously heavy duty boom capable stand (I use a Cheetah Boom). And the large umbrella approach is a great way to do it at closer range (Photek Softlighter II would be my suggestions, in the 46" to 60", mostly 60" range). Otherwise, a 48" octa like Fotodiox EZpro is a good way to go (but heavy). Get a light meter! If you don't already have one, get one. A basic Sekonic works fine. It makes this kind of lighting setup so much faster and easier, I can't stress enough how much easier life is when dealing with light, when you have a light meter to tell you your output instead of guessing and chimping. Again, kids don't give you a 2nd chance, so you have to get your light output correct the first time. Ultimately I use umbrella boxes now over my softboxes, they're lighter weight, larger, more portable, etc. So much easier to use honestly to me in the field with my daughter.

Now I will say, I do not try to do F1.4 any more. It's just not worth it. The DOF is too thin for little kids anyways, as they do not sit still and you will just have fits with focus in that kind of bright sunlight (golden hour). I do use F2 and F2.8, mostly F2.8 these days, a lot. At F2.8 in the golden hour sun, you don't need a monstrous shutter to get the right ambient exposure, you can often do 1/1000s to 1/1600s, etc (assuming you want to drop ambient by 1 stop or so, compared to subject). Reviewing a lot of my bright or sunset goldhour shots, I'm very often at 1/1000s and F2.8, ISO 100 in that light for ambient. The subject exposure is the strobe.

I went with the Rovelight early on. The new Godox 600ws system is very attractive. But honestly, I'm fine with the Rovelight and it's inexpensive while giving serious light. I don't need an LCD or anything. I just set it up, I set it to 1/4th power in HSS, and I meter the light until I get F2.8 out of it. I don't even use the remote anymore, I just manually change the power myself these days since I"ve been using umbrellas more and more and so the back of the unit is always facing where I can see it and get it (one less thing to carry and leave in the field with kids!). I have had no need or reason to get a more expensive light than the Rovelight. Adorama service has been unbeatable too, which is the other reason for me.

I can't stress enough keeping it simple with kids.

Again, here's what I suggest:

600ws Strobe with HSS (any kind, pulse, long burn, just get something and get to shooting; don't worry about TTL)
Heavy Duty stand with boom arm (I use Cheetah Boom, holds my rovelight fine)
Bungee's & stakes (you want to keep your stand upright in the wind)
HSS capable transceivers (I use YN622's)
60" Softlighter II by Photek
Light Meter

Here's my amateur stuff with my kid in my field, kind of what you've described, just passing on what I've learned from this place.

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/wRUH​xS

I don't use TTL because it can be inconsistent, so I would not get TTL, and I think that saves a little bit of money.

I also would recommend a full Godox setup. I use the AD360 v1 light with THIS Cheetahstand modifier, and the Godox X1 triggers. Together that is a perfect setup for me. Very mobile, durable and very reliable.

ShotByTom wrote in post #17970655
I don't use TTL because it can be inconsistent, so I would not get TTL, and I think that saves a little bit of money.

I also would recommend a full Godox setup. I use the AD360 v1 light with THIS Cheetahstand modifier, and the Godox X1 triggers. Together that is a perfect setup for me. Very mobile, durable and very reliable.

I wouldn't use TTL in a static shoot situation, but when you have people moving it's the only way to go.

windpig wrote in post #17970774
I wouldn't use TTL in a static shoot situation, but when you have people moving it's the only way to go.

I don't remember the last time I used TTL. I don't use it for weddings or receptions, it's too inconsistent.

I must just be lucky, my Ettl is dead nuts 98% of the time... Of course I set it as fill not a key.

If you are running ocf with baby monsters running rampant, ettl is def the way to go...

Buchinger wrote in post #17970986
I must just be lucky, my Ettl is dead nuts 98% of the time... Of course I set it as fill not a key.

This

I am amused by how every one of these threads turns into a religious argument about TTL.

TTL is a tool. It works just as well as any other tool. The way to make any tool useful is to practice with it until one knows how it works, when its most useful and what it's limitation may be.

Them use that knowledge to make good images.

The important elements, for the OP, are being able to use FP-sync to use wide apertures with ambient light during golden hour without resorting to ND filters.

The premium for a TTL enabled AD600 is about $200. That seems like a significant premium until balanced with not having TTL when it will be useful and missing out on some great images.

Whether one decides to use TTL or not should depend on circumstances if all the tools are available.

The AD600 will be useful for the OP's intended purpose using FP sync with or without TTL.

It would be much more beneficial to the OP and others reading the thread to focus on helping with answering the question rather than jumping on a soap box to claim that one way is the only way. In reality there are usually three or four ways to solve a photographic challenge, depending on one's experience and the tools available.