80D - Does this have issues bouncing flash?

Wilt wrote in post #17984376
Distance is used only within the context of the metering looking at all focus zones 'at the same distance' as the zone of primary focus, to compare the response of each zone to the preflash, so it invalidates especially bright zones (those that have a mirror or shiny metal reflecting back an image of the flash itself to the meter). Otherwise, ETTL does NOT use flash distance. And when ceiling bounce is used, the Distance information is ignored entirely. Canon abandoned the direct use of flash distance after ATTL flopped.

Auto flash (Canon's 'External' mode and Metz legendary 'Auto' mode), simply makes use of the flash's own photosensor (and not the camera's) to measure light returning from the subject in real time, rather than using the preflash metering's predetermined output just before exposure is taken.

Canon gets flash exposure messed up at times (e.g. Canon 20D and 30D), even for direct ETTL...

• POTN posts abound about cameras in those days (2002-2004) needing users to permanently dial in FEC +1EV in order to get shot simply to be as bright as an ambient-only exposure.
  
• Later, with the 40D, ETTL would work properly even with FEC 0EV, and would work also for ceiling bounce, but could get it wrong if the flash were fired into a softbox.
  
• Then the 580EXII and 600EX-RT both got it wrong, with as much as 2EV of flash UNDERexposure in the 'External' mode, although ETTL could get it right!
  
• The claim (I have no direct experience with the 70D) was that ceiling bounce got it wrong, although direct ETTL got it right.
  

Verdict is out on the 80D until users start to complain.

I still can't believe they got it wrong on the 600 EX. If they want to preserve highlights there is no need to be 2EV under. I can see Canon not wanting to make a correction mid way through the 580 because then you have recalls, etc. I don't know of anyone who even uses External mode. Why add it and make us pay for it? Also Canon goes RT but forgets to add second curtain sync for off camera flash. Yongnuo did it. I don't miss it but some people weren't happy.

digital paradise wrote in post #17984379
I tried Average and I think it did better indoors but when in a hurry going in and out it is one more thing to remember so I just left it on Evaluative. I just have to chimp and FEC a little more.

I will definitely try

thanks for refreshing my memory on the differences between the two!

Greetings Milt!

I should have stated that both the images I posted were processed from RAW and exposure adjusted to create pleasing skin detail/color. On my screen, your left image (virtual copy) appears darker than the image I posted and the +1 EV edited image appears too light, losing detail in the skin and color saturation. I'm not viewing on a calibrated monitor (an iPad Pro), so comparisons can be less than perfect. It was my bad as I should have posted SOOC images to make the point about the flash exposure.

All the best,
Dan

Wilt's copy is aRGB. Your original is sRGB. Their histograms are virtually identical though Wilt's copy of your original, before he adjusted exposure, appears brighter on my calibrated monitor using Firefox.

Thanks for that info OVF! I appreciate you checking that out.

rvnomad wrote in post #17984478
I should have stated that both the images I posted were processed from RAW and exposure adjusted to create pleasing skin detail/color. On my screen, your left image (virtual copy) appears darker than the image I posted and the +1 EV edited image appears too light, losing detail in the skin and color saturation. I'm not viewing on a calibrated monitor (an iPad Pro), so comparisons can be less than perfect. It was my bad as I should have posted SOOC images to make the point about the flash exposure.

All the best,
Dan

Hello Dan, yes having images adjusted to suit taste is certainly not misbehavior! I can understand what you might raise as an issue, regarding preservation of skin details.

But let me point out that the Left image is EXACTLY as captured by 'Save Image as...' resulting in a JPG screen copy. There is no reason it should be brighter or darker than your posted image, apart from the size of the photo contributing to some impression of darkness.
Using the LR eyedropper tool, the facial tones of the original file have RGB values about 65-55-40 (cheek area), which puts it at about the same level as an 18% grey card (50-50-50) rather than 0.75-1.0EV brighter, which typifies Caucasian skintones. As I previously said, I simply did a +1EV adjustment to exposure simply to see what resulted; his cheek ends up about 80-65-60 -- and judging what I consider to be inherent brightness of his T-shirt, even if his face as a bit brighter than optimal. It would be nice to see your shot exactly as exposed, without adjustment during your RAW conversion, so that we can see how the 80D and bounce flash captured that, without your interpretion being applied.

oldvultureface wrote in post #17984630
Wilt's copy is aRGB. Your original is sRGB. Their histograms are virtually identical though Wilt's copy of your original, before he adjusted exposure, appears brighter on my calibrated monitor using Firefox.

I don't know where your comment about my file being aRGB comes from! The original JPG image was saved to my disk and imported as a JPG into Lightroom, and the the Library function was used to juxtapose it next to my exposure-adjusted shot before a screen capture of the Library page was made...in other words, the screen capture software has NO comprehension of a color space other than sRGB. Using an EXIF reader, there is NO EXIF data embedded within the JPG file at all, so nothing to cause any other software to hang the 'aRGB' label on that single composite JPG!

Wilt,
I suspect you are correct that the size of your copied image gave me the impression that it was darker. However, for me (and maybe for others), my message is that now I can shoot bounce flash with the 80D without having to dial in extreme exposure compensation as was the case with the 70D (addressing the OP's initial query).

Dan

Dan,

Thanks for sharing your experiences with the 70D vs the 80D. I may pick up the 80D down the road a bit.

I'm really concerned now..... I couldn't tolerate a camera with issues when bouncing flash!!

I'm keeping an eye on this thread for more 80d users.....

AlanU wrote in post #17985114
I'm really concerned now..... I couldn't tolerate a camera with issues when bouncing flash!!

I'm keeping an eye on this thread for more 80d users.....

i have been bouncing flash with my 5D2, 5D3, 50D, 7D and 7D2 and I have always had to FEC when in ETTL. I have stopped worrying about it and don't care. I just adjust FEC as require for subject exposure.

digital paradise wrote in post #17985210
i have been bouncing flash with my 5D2, 5D3, 50D, 7D and 7D2 and I have always had to FEC when in ETTL. I have stopped worrying about it and don't care. I just adjust FEC as require for subject exposure.

I've never worried about FEC either. This potential underexposure issue is a shock to me....

Hi everyone!

I´m brazilian and I want to collaborate with this thread.

I´m with 70d for 1 year and a half. It is my first dsrl camera.
Now, after this whole time I can say some things about 70d.

I´m impressed on how many people complain about problem in this model.
Some people say that only few numbers of camera is affected with problem... DONT!
All the 70d copies in the market has the same problems. But the most people (even novice) dont recognize them or dont complain in public about that.
A lot of people keep using the camera with problem and saying the camera is perfect. One day they may discove they were wrong.


1. Yes, 70d has problem with bounce flash situation.
2. Yes, 70d has problem about overheating when using video. Die after a certain time of use (more less 2 years). In brazil I read cases when they were using less than 8 months on hard use with videos.
3. Yes, 70d has auto focus problem (live view takes perfect photos while view finder doesnt). this is the winner problem spreading out on internet when they say shooting photos by using view finder the images get blurry.
4. yes, 70d has problem regarding the inconsistency focus. This is a little different from the auto focus problem above; LV and VF has a different type of renderization resulting in different images. This problem about inconsistency is other; some times you take picture the result is good/perfect, sometimes is horrible. Sometimes is tack sharp, sometimes blurry. Each photos you take only one or two will save out of 6 or 7. (In my case and thousand of people: I have to shoot 5 times in order to get at least 1 or 2 images tack sharp.) For example, after a test from the digital rev tv, 70d had the worse results in this terms, comparing to 7dmk2 and nikon d7200. In this test, they shot 210 photos with 70d and ONLY 17 photos was tack sharpen/in focus. Don´t believe? (watch: https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=d5ia2xoAqkA )
4. Yes, 70d has some problem when using some lenses while other models doesnt (even older). Some lenses from tokina, sigma and tamron does not works fine with 70d. Each ones has its particular problem.
5. Yes, 70d has a bad moire/aliasing treatment. In some cases when recording video it is almost impossible to use the captured image. Even older compact cameras are better.
6. Other few problems I will not comment here...

Canon is kidding with everybody. Canon dont care about their problems. They want to sell, sell, sell. It doesnt matter if you pay an expensive value for a camera that can be your way of survive.
Each newer launchs the cameras presents problems and years go by... they dont fix anything!

The Canon´s camera has less dynamic range, iso sensitivity and sharpen when comparing to nikon and sony. This year (2016) canon has been launched the 80d without 4k and with minimum changes about dynamic range, color depth, etc... Canon treats us like dumb uninformed!

I my opinion WE HAVE TO STOP BUYING PRODUCTS FROM CANON! URGENTLY! If we want a better world photography, a better technology in our hands, we need to stop buying Canon!
And i´m not being paid to say this. I own Canon products and because this I can say what im saying! I´m not nikon boy or anything like that! I just wont being idiot when Canon treat me like a novice dumb!

Before writting this, i sent my camera to Canon Brazil in order to fix some problems and they didnt fix anything! I paid 500,00 reais for the fix. When the camera arrived and phonned back to tell them they are kidding with me. They pretend not to know, giving various excuses. The employees are cheeky and scheduled to tell decorated lines and you're not sure what to do.

After too much hassles and traumas I had with my first dslr experience, knowing i dont have money enough to buy another camera or migrate to other brand,
the conclusion I draw is trying to sell the 70d. Sure I will lose money and I will have to pay more money to buy another camera. But Canon has no options!
The only good cameras that Canon seems to have is 5dmk3 and 7dmk2 which are extremely expensive here in brazil. I have to sell car and lots of things to buy one. Inconveniently for me!


My first experience with Canon has been not good! But i will put this to sell. I hope I get a buyer!

PS: sorry for any english mistake. I took one hour and half to write this to illustrate my sorrow with this brand and camera model.

[]s
Thanks
Mira

miramez wrote in post #18002576
Hi everyone!

I´m brazilian and I want to collaborate with this thread.

I´m with 70d for 1 year and a half. It is my first dsrl camera.
Now, after this whole time I can say some things about 70d.

I´m impressed on how many people complain about problem in this model.
Some people say that only few numbers of camera is affected with problem... DONT!
All the 70d copies in the market has the same problems. But the most people (even novice) dont recognize them or dont complain in public about that.
A lot of people keep using the camera with problem and saying the camera is perfect. One day they may discove they were wrong.


1. Yes, 70d has problem with bounce flash situation.
2. Yes, 70d has problem about overheating when using video. Die after a certain time of use (more less 2 years). In brazil I read cases when they were using less than 8 months on hard use with videos.
3. Yes, 70d has auto focus problem (live view takes perfect photos while view finder doesnt). this is the winner problem spreading out on internet when they say shooting photos by using view finder the images get blurry.
4. yes, 70d has problem regarding the inconsistency focus. This is a little different from the auto focus problem above; LV and VF has a different type of renderization resulting in different images. This problem about inconsistency is other; some times you take picture the result is good/perfect, sometimes is horrible. Sometimes is tack sharp, sometimes blurry. Each photos you take only one or two will save out of 6 or 7. (In my case and thousand of people: I have to shoot 5 times in order to get at least 1 or 2 images tack sharp.) For example, after a test from the digital rev tv, 70d had the worse results in this terms, comparing to 7dmk2 and nikon d7200. In this test, they shot 210 photos with 70d and ONLY 17 photos was tack sharpen/in focus. Don´t believe? (watch: https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=d5ia2xoAqkA )
4. Yes, 70d has some problem when using some lenses while other models doesnt (even older). Some lenses from tokina, sigma and tamron does not works fine with 70d. Each ones has its particular problem.
5. Yes, 70d has a bad moire/aliasing treatment. In some cases when recording video it is almost impossible to use the captured image. Even older compact cameras are better.
6. Other few problems I will not comment here...

Canon is kidding with everybody. Canon dont care about their problems. They want to sell, sell, sell. It doesnt matter if you pay an expensive value for a camera that can be your way of survive.
Each newer launchs the cameras presents problems and years go by... they dont fix anything!

The Canon´s camera has less dynamic range, iso sensitivity and sharpen when comparing to nikon and sony. This year (2016) canon has been launched the 80d without 4k and with minimum changes about dynamic range, color depth, etc... Canon treats us like dumb uninformed!

I my opinion WE HAVE TO STOP BUYING PRODUCTS FROM CANON! URGENTLY! If we want a better world photography, a better technology in our hands, we need to stop buying Canon!
And i´m not being paid to say this. I own Canon products and because this I can say what im saying! I´m not nikon boy or anything like that! I just wont being idiot when Canon treat me like a novice dumb!

Before writting this, i sent my camera to Canon Brazil in order to fix some problems and they didnt fix anything! I paid 500,00 reais for the fix. When the camera arrived and phonned back to tell them they are kidding with me. They pretend not to know, giving various excuses. The employees are cheeky and scheduled to tell decorated lines and you're not sure what to do.

After too much hassles and traumas I had with my first dslr experience, knowing i dont have money enough to buy another camera or migrate to other brand,
the conclusion I draw is trying to sell the 70d. Sure I will lose money and I will have to pay more money to buy another camera. But Canon has no options!
The only good cameras that Canon seems to have is 5dmk2 and 7dmk2 which are extremely expensive here in brazil. I have to sell car and lots of things to buy one. Inconveniently for me!


My first experience with Canon has been not good! But i will put this to sell. I hope I get a buyer!

PS: sorry for any english mistake. I took one hour and half to write this to illustrate my sorrow with this brand and camera model.

[]s
Thanks
Mira

This is the 80D thread

So is the damn thing broke or not? A simple yes or no will suffice.

Anybody? Thanks.

Hi Blake,

Have you done extensive tests with your 80D to confirm there "is" or "is not" any issues regarding bounced flash with the 80d you own?

I'm really curious.....