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FORUMS General Gear Talk Camera Vs. Camera 
Thread started 20 Apr 2016 (Wednesday) 20:57
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5D mk 3 or 6D for first full frame

 
Bassat
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May 03, 2016 22:06 |  #46

The 6D has an option for ISO 50. That allows the same aperture at 50, 1/4000 as the 5D3 does at 100, 1/8000. The 1D only went to ISO 200, but had a 1/16000 shutter. Nobody complained about that.


Tom

  
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AlanU
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May 03, 2016 22:37 |  #47

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #17995116 (external link)
People always act like the 1/4000s max shutter speed is such a horrible limitation... give me a break. How often do you actually need to shoot above 1/4000s? I can say I personally hardly ever need to go beyond that, and when I do the shot would look pretty much identical if I'd just drop the aperture by one stop or bring it down a stop in post (yes, the 6D does that just fine in my experience).

As for the dual card slots; I've never had a card fail, nor have I even ever known another photographer who has had a card fail... so it's not really a surprise to me that Canon/Sony and many other manufacturers aren't adding it to most of their cameras.

I've only had 1 sandisk fail on me in 9yrs. Luckily it was just a casual photo shoot.

If someone counted on you to document a pivotal moment (wedding) and by chance Murphy's law struck your SD card you have failed. All the explanation to the bride and groom will not push the responsibility to your "memory card". The failure lies on you. Card failure does happen so to have insurance with dual cards is logical. The reason for the exemption of the extra slot is due more to cost not difficulty in incorporating the added slot. All of the top tier Canon's have dual memory slots for professional reasons.

I guess you never use primes outdoors. Your creative control can be hindered by shutter speed unless you have ND filters. In most cases I do not hit 1/8000 but I can venture past 1/4000 even shooting f/2.8 with my 70-200 in some cases. Did you carry ND4's? ND8's in your pocket when you owned a 6d?

If the 6d works for you that is great. The OP discussed "versatility" and the 5dmk3 is simply more versatile. This is based on the design straight from Canon. No emotional discussion here...this is based on facts of the specifications of the camera.

Getaway.... if you analyze your gear they all meet your standards in your type of photography. If I was paid to document gymnastics neither the slow fuji or Sony A7s AF would have the tracking capabilities of a 5d3. Different tools for different applications.


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EverydayGetaway
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May 03, 2016 22:46 |  #48

AlanU wrote in post #17995170 (external link)
I've only had 1 sandisk fail on me in 9yrs. Luckily it was just a casual photo shoot.

If someone counted on you to document a pivotal moment (wedding) and by chance Murphy's law struck your SD card you have failed. All the explanation to the bride and groom will not push the responsibility to your "memory card". The failure lies on you. Card failure does happen so to have insurance with dual cards is logical. The reason for the exemption of the extra slot is due more to cost not difficulty in incorporating the added slot. All of the top tier Canon's have dual memory slots for professional reasons.

I guess you never use primes outdoors. Your creative control can be hindered by shutter speed unless you have ND filters. In most cases I do not hit 1/8000 but I can venture past 1/4000 even shooting f/2.8 with my 70-200 in some cases. Did you carry ND4's? ND8's in your pocket when you owned a 6d?

If the 6d works for you that is great. The OP discussed "versatility" and the 5dmk3 is simply more versatile. This is based on the design straight from Canon. No emotional discussion here...this is based on facts of the specifications of the camera.

Getaway.... if you analyze your gear they all meet your standards in your type of photography. If I was paid to document gymnastics neither the slow fuji or Sony A7s AF would have the tracking capabilities of a 5d3. Different tools for different applications.

The majority of people who would buy a 6D aren't shooting weddings, and even then I wouldn't (and haven't) hesitate to use it for that task either.

If you would've looked at my signature you'd have noted that I shoot pretty much entirely with primes... again, hasn't ever been an issue. And no, I didn't use ND filters for anything but rolling shots when shooting cars. As noted above, if it's that much of an issue you can knock the camera down to ISO50 (I never felt the need).

Of course the 5D3 is "more versatile", it's also much more expensive and all the extra bells and whistles just aren't necessary for a lot of shooters, especially when it detracts other features some shooters (like myself) consider more important like WiFi, changeable focusing screens and better ergonomics for one handed operation.

And my replies have been in direct response to what the OP shoots and what I think he'd find more useful. It has nothing to do with what I've shot with, it has everything to do with me not believing in wasting money "just in case".

jackstens wrote in post #17979116 (external link)
I shoot mostly landscape/ cityscape. Random things I find cool or that tell a story. Some macro mixed in. Not so many portraits but Im still finding new stuff and testing the waters exploring different things so I would like a versatile camera.

Tell me why a 6D can't do this and I'll link you some photography guides ;)


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FarmerTed1971
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May 03, 2016 22:53 |  #49

I think the OP would be thrilled with a 6D and the extra coin in his pocket. If budget allows then the 5D3 is a no-brainer.


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May 03, 2016 23:16 |  #50

I have exceeded 1/4000 a few times in the past, especially with 85L.


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EverydayGetaway
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May 03, 2016 23:24 |  #51

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17995206 (external link)
I have exceeded 1/4000 a few times in the past, especially with 85L.

I had to go back 7 pages on my flickr (which is a lot for me) to find the first shot which required more than 1/4000s shutter speed... this shot is from last summer

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I don't think there would've been any difference worth noting had I had to stop the lens to f2 from f1.4 on the Rokinon 85mm. Note that the lighting pretty much always sucks anyway when you're in need of that high of a shutter speed.

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LincsRP
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May 04, 2016 05:48 |  #52

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #17995116 (external link)
As for the dual card slots; I've never had a card fail, nor have I even ever known another photographer who has had a card fail... so it's not really a surprise to me that Canon/Sony and many other manufacturers aren't adding it to most of their cameras.

I've had a couple friends whose cards failed. Good quality cards by reputable manufacturers too. If shooting a job such as wedding/social event/commercial a second slot is mandatory otherwise you'd look very foolish when you try to explain the card failed and 'it's not my fault the card failed' to your customer.


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neacail
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May 04, 2016 06:19 |  #53

AlanU wrote in post #17995111 (external link)

"but Im still finding new stuff and testing the waters exploring different things so I would like a versatile camera."


The op has mentioned two Canon bodies. The 5dmk3 is without a question more versatile than the 6D.

I agree completely. Having used mine for just over two years, I do not consider the 6D a versatile camera. It is very, very good at some things, but it isn't an all-around camera IMO. I picked up a 5D3 a couple of months ago for sports and general use.

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #17995116 (external link)
People always act like the 1/4000s max shutter speed is such a horrible limitation... give me a break. How often do you actually need to shoot above 1/4000s? I can say I personally hardly ever need to go beyond that, and when I do the shot would look pretty much identical if I'd just drop the aperture by one stop or bring it down a stop in post (yes, the 6D does that just fine in my experience).

I find I run up against the max shutter speed quite often, but (and this is a big "but") 1/8000 is sometimes not enough either. An ND fader travels with my gear at all times, no matter what body I've packed.


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neacail
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May 04, 2016 06:27 |  #54

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #17995173 (external link)
Of course the 5D3 is "more versatile", it's also much more expensive and all the extra bells and whistles just aren't necessary for a lot of shooters, especially when it detracts other features some shooters (like myself) consider more important like WiFi, changeable focusing screens and better ergonomics for one handed operation.

Don't forget the built in GPS (which I love). :) The Wi-Fi, GPS, and interchangeable focus screens make it a phenomenal body for landscape and astro work, and manual lens usage. That's where the 6D excels for me personally.


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May 04, 2016 07:30 as a reply to  @ EverydayGetaway's post |  #55

A full stop would have indeed made a big difference, you would have blown out highlights of the vehicles/building, and possibly the girl, most likely. The 85L is another 1/3 stop faster yet. When shooting portraits in overhead lighting trying to get a very thin DOF at f1.2, 1/4000th simply isn't fast enough.

Having a ND filter with me at all times would be a smart thing, but I usually travel as a minimalist and forget things like filters.


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Bassat
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May 04, 2016 07:38 as a reply to  @ TeamSpeed's post |  #56

Therein lies the fallacy. The is no difference between ISO 50 & 1/4000 and ISO 100 & 1/8000, with respect to aperture choice. If one works, so will the other.

I concede, sometimes you may need 1/8000 to freeze motion. It doesn't appear to me as though the girl, the car, or the buildings are moving very quickly.


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EverydayGetaway
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May 04, 2016 09:06 |  #57

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17995458 (external link)
A full stop would have indeed made a big difference, you would have blown out highlights of the vehicles/building, and possibly the girl, most likely. The 85L is another 1/3 stop faster yet. When shooting portraits in overhead lighting trying to get a very thin DOF at f1.2, 1/4000th simply isn't fast enough.

Having a ND filter with me at all times would be a smart thing, but I usually travel as a minimalist and forget things like filters.

Please show an example of a shot where 1/8000s was absolutely necessary to acheive the shot.


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May 04, 2016 09:47 as a reply to  @ EverydayGetaway's post |  #58

I will have to dig through my archives and my posts when I used the 85L in the park, if I have the time. You don't seem to need it, I have needed it in the past, it is as simple as that, and I don't think my effort is worth trying to prove that out.

ISO 50 wasn't an option on the cameras I used at the time. Also ISO 50 comes with some issues of its own, as it is not a real ISO.

A ND filter is the answer here, better than using ISO 50.


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EverydayGetaway
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May 04, 2016 10:46 |  #59

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17995561 (external link)
I will have to dig through my archives and my posts when I used the 85L in the park, if I have the time. You don't seem to need it, I have needed it in the past, it is as simple as that, and I don't think my effort is worth trying to prove that out.

ISO 50 wasn't an option on the cameras I used at the time. Also ISO 50 comes with some issues of its own, as it is not a real ISO.

A ND filter is the answer here, better than using ISO 50.

So if you're going to need an ND filter anyway what difference does it make if your camera has a max shutter speed of 1/4000s or 1/8000s?

Also...

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17995458 (external link)
A full stop would have indeed made a big difference, you would have blown out highlights of the vehicles/building, and possibly the girl, most likely. The 85L is another 1/3 stop faster yet. When shooting portraits in overhead lighting trying to get a very thin DOF at f1.2, 1/4000th simply isn't fast enough.

Having a ND filter with me at all times would be a smart thing, but I usually travel as a minimalist and forget things like filters.

No... my point is that it wouldn't have made a difference if I had to stop the lens down to f2 from the f1.4 that the image was shot at.


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Bassat
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May 04, 2016 11:36 |  #60

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17995561 (external link)
I will have to dig through my archives and my posts when I used the 85L in the park, if I have the time. You don't seem to need it, I have needed it in the past, it is as simple as that, and I don't think my effort is worth trying to prove that out.

ISO 50 wasn't an option on the cameras I used at the time. Also ISO 50 comes with some issues of its own, as it is not a real ISO.

A ND filter is the answer here, better than using ISO 50.


EverydayGetaway wrote in post #17995622 (external link)
So if you're going to need an ND filter anyway what difference does it make if your camera has a max shutter speed of 1/4000s or 1/8000s?

Well, you do have to admit that 1/4000 to 1/8000 is only one stop. I believe we all have to agree that if you need more than one stop, the ND filter is the ONLY way to go.

I just looked through my LR library. I've never needed 1/4000, let alone 1/8000 and an ND filter. I used Yashica FX-3 S2K bodies with f/2.8 glass for years. This may be dementia and forgetfulness, but I don't ever recall feeling restricted by 1/2000.


Tom

  
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5D mk 3 or 6D for first full frame
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