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Thread started 09 Mar 2006 (Thursday) 09:32
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20D Color Banding (Fluorescent lighting issue)

 
photodd
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Mar 09, 2006 09:32 |  #1

I've been shooting the 20D for about a year now and am suddenly getting some weird color banding on the edges. My set-up is 20D w/vertical grip, 70-200/2.8 shooting jpg large @ ISO 1600-3200. I'm holding vertically the same in each but the pink band switches sides. What's causing this? I have two other examples from another recent shoot which has a yellow band showing on opposite sides. These are all un-edited except for size.


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photodd
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Mar 09, 2006 09:34 |  #2

Here are the yellow examples. I should mention that I am shooting single shot, auto WB. All 4 were at 200mm.


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SkipD
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Mar 09, 2006 09:37 |  #3

All that is due to the lighting and the fact that you were using the wrong shutter speed(s) for the lighting.

The lighting was probably flourescent or some other gas-discharge lighting type. Most of those lighting types have an output - both intensity and color - that fluctuates at the power line frequency.

The only way around the problem is to shoot at an even multiple (at or slower than) 1/2 the power line frequency. In the US (where we use 60Hertz power) this means that you can shoot with the following shutter speeds 1/120, 1/60, 1/30, 1/15, etc., and get whole cycles of the lighting in the frame.


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photodd
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Mar 09, 2006 09:41 as a reply to  @ SkipD's post |  #4

SkipD wrote:
In the US (where we use 60Hertz power) this means that you can shoot with the following shutter speeds 1/120, 1/60, 1/30, 1/15, etc., and get whole cycles of the lighting in the frame.

So I can shoot 1/240 to hand-hold a 200mm lens?


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SkipD
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Mar 09, 2006 09:44 as a reply to  @ photodd's post |  #5

photodd wrote:
So I can shoot 1/240 to hand-hold a 200mm lens?

No. That will get 1/4 of the power cycle. 1/120 gets 1/2 of the power cycle, which is OK. If you use anything shorter (or any in-between shutter speed relative to the list I gave you) and you will get the wierd colors and intensities that you saw.

Use a lens with IS or use a monopod/tripod for stability.

The only other solution is to use flash that is strong enough to overpower the house lighting by a couple of stops. That would take a BIG flash unit.


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Curtis ­ N
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Mar 09, 2006 09:48 |  #6

Hopefully, this thread will help explain the limitations you're dealing with.

I don't know of any way to shoot with shutter speeds fast enough to stop action in sporting events, without causing the banding you refer to, unless you overpower the existing light with flash.


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Mar 09, 2006 09:50 |  #7

I too am still learning all the time...thanks Skip.
It's just odd that I've been shooting digitally since a D30 and this just happens during my last 2 indoor outings.


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Mar 09, 2006 09:52 |  #8

Skip, I'm sure I've seen you comment on this type of isue in another thread - but I've not seen examples before. I understand the "power line frequency" bit (or I thought I did!) but does the type of "gas" in the fitment have any bearing on the "band" - or does it only affect the colour?
TJ


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Jon
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Mar 09, 2006 09:54 |  #9

Just the colour. In your case shutter speeds would be 1/100,1/50, 1/25, . . . since the electrical frequency is 50 Hz. in Europe.


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Mar 09, 2006 10:02 as a reply to  @ Curtis N's post |  #10

Curtis N wrote:
Hopefully, this thread will help explain the limitations you're dealing with.

Thanks Curtis. Goes to show pretty much everything has been discussed here before. I need to remember to do a thread search first.


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Mar 09, 2006 10:02 as a reply to  @ TeeJay's post |  #11

TeeJay wrote:
Skip, I'm sure I've seen you comment on this type of isue in another thread - but I've not seen examples before. I understand the "power line frequency" bit (or I thought I did!) but does the type of "gas" in the fitment have any bearing on the "band" - or does it only affect the colour?
TJ

The banding is a function of how the light actually changes over time (too fast for humans to see, of course) and what the exact shutter speed is. Essentially what is happening in the sample pics in this thread is caused by the focal plane shutter. Let me copy something I wrote about focal plane shutters in another thread, then I will continue.


Focal plane shutters (common on SLR cameras) consist of two "curtains", usually made of rubberized cloth (in old film cameras) or very thin metal. The first curtain (which I will call the "leading" curtain) normally covers the film or sensor, hiding it from the light coming through the lens. When you take a photo, the leading curtain moves across the film/sensor to expose it to the light. After the leading curtain has moved, another curtain (which I will call the "trailing" curtain) starts to move, again covering the film/sensor to hide the light from it.

At shutter speeds below the "Max Sync Speed", the leading curtain travels all the way across the film/sensor, fully opening the film/sensor to the light, before the trailing curtain starts to move. At higher shutter speeds, the trailing curtain starts to move before the leading curtain has completely travelled across the film/sensor. What happens to create the very fast "shutter speeds" is that an open slot between the two curtains travels across the film/sensor.

While old focal plane shutters (like in my Nikon F cameras from the 1960's) travelled horizontally, the shutters in most modern SLR's travel across the short distance of the film/sensor frame. The concept of "curtains" turns into one of "blades", but the travel concept is still the same. The leading blade moves first, uncovering the film/sensor, and the trailing blade follows, covering up the film/sensor.

The advantage of the blade style of focal plane shutter is that it can move across the whole film/sensor area faster than the old style curtains. Thus, the maximum sync speed is higher than in the old cameras (max 1/60 for my old Nikon F's, and 1/250 for the 20D).

The concept of a maximum sync speed, however, still applies. If you try to use a flash at higher shutter speeds (faster than the shutter speed at which the leading curtain/blade is fully open before the trailing curtain/blade starts to move), part of the film/sensor will be covered by one or the other of the curtains/blades when the flash (with a very short duration) goes off. Part of the film/sensor will not "see" the light from the flash, and that part of the image will be either black or very dark.

With that little lesson down pat - the photos at the top of this thread must have been taken with a shutter speed in excess of the max sync speed for the camera. Thus, a slit between the curtains was travelling across the image (actually in a top-to-bottom or bottom-to-top direction when the camera is in its normal position). As the slit was travelling across the sensor, the color and intensity of the light was changing. Thus, the image had a different color painted across the image as the slit travelled.


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20D Color Banding (Fluorescent lighting issue)
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