Help please: Family shoot quote

In my locale +/-$250 is the going rate for a family shoot. Ie for mom and dad, billy and sally.

I was asked by someone at church to shoot their family reunion/Christmas dinner. I'd only have 2-3 hours tops and in that time I'd have to shoot 5-7 adult families, some with children of their own, plus one large group photo (15+). My wife is now reading me the Riot Act for quoting a friend from church (ie, someone I already know) $400-500 to include edited files, one 8x10" per family, and a print release. She is thinking $350ish is appropriate.

From a year of shooting weddings as a second and sometimes primary I know this is going to be an incredibly stressful shoot, with lots of editing, plus time to print. I know I'd need my lighting, stands, etc and an assistant to get it done in time. I feel like $250 for the entire shoot would be insane (insanely low). Personally, I value my time more than that--regardless of whether other capable photogs do.

For those of you who shoot primarily families, would a shoot like this be covered under one 'family' charge? Am I on the moon?

No you are not on the moon. Family equals Mum+Dad+Kids (Grandparents at a push), it doesn't include a whole set of other cousins aunts and uncles.

Walk away. You'll never make anybody happy.

Dan Marchant wrote in post #17981576
No you are not on the moon. Family equals Mum+Dad+Kids (Grandparents at a push), it doesn't include a whole set of other cousins aunts and uncles.

Thanks Dan

$250 is fine for a "family shoot". This is something totally different. This is essentually "event photography" involving a second shooter and some significant coordinating. Staying in that $250 pricing rate, I wouldn't touch this unless I could get at least $800, probably even more. These folks can do math. Anyone should be able to see this is a different scope of work. They're most likely business professionals that should be able to appreciate the value of both time and talent. If not, smile and explain that the quality of what you offer simply costs this much. You're not just charging for the time and talent to stage and shoot, but you're charging for your artistic talent to create an heirloom that will be treasured for years to come. Ask the women what they pay for a cut and color which only lasts for several weeks. What's it cost to knock a little white ball around on a nice golf course for a few hours? Don't apologize for providing a premium product. If they're uncomfortable paying this kind of money, they shouldn't be asking for this kind of work. Smart phones shoot fine snapshots, but they're snapshots. And a church friend should trust that you're sincere in your pricing.

I don't think the question at hand is about the value/price of an event session - it is about how much you should charge friends and family? Or at least that is what I am taking from your wife's request?

drmaxx wrote in post #17981769
I don't think the question at hand is about the value/price of an event session - it is about how much you should charge friends and family? Or at least that is what I am taking from your wife's request?

Yeah that's part of it. For friends or someone I respect, say active duty military, I'm more inclined to add value by including more prints, a higher album credit, etc instead of lowering a price. For this shoot my plan was to throw in one 8x10" per family.

texkam wrote in post #17981710
$250 is fine for a "family shoot". This is something totally different. This is essentually "event photography" involving a second shooter and some significant coordinating. Staying in that $250 pricing rate, I wouldn't touch this unless I could get at least $800, probably even more. These folks can do math. Anyone should be able to see this is a different scope of work. They're most likely business professionals that should be able to appreciate the value of both time and talent. If not, smile and explain that the quality of what you offer simply costs this much. You're not just charging for the time and talent to stage and shoot, but you're charging for your artistic talent to create an heirloom that will be treasured for years to come. Ask the women what they pay for a cut and color which only lasts for several weeks. What's it cost to knock a little white ball around on a nice golf course for a few hours? Don't apologize for providing a premium product. If they're uncomfortable paying this kind of money, they shouldn't be asking for this kind of work. Smart phones shoot fine snapshots, but they're snapshots. And a church friend should trust that you're sincere in your pricing.

Very well said, thank you.

I feel better now

Is this a case of them putting pressure on you through your wife, because of the price that you have quoted, or is it just your wife getting involved where perhaps she shouldn't be? If it is a case of the latter, then point out to her who must be obeyed that what they are asking for is actually at a minimum 5 family shoots, plus the big group, and that really that should be a $1250 job based on your local pricing. Add that since you also have to produce the results in a compressed time frame, that the job will be more complicated, and that you would need to hire a competent assistant out of the fee as well. It actually strikes me that this sounds more like a $2000 job even based on seven families and the group in a tight time frame, so offering it at under $500 is already crazy cheap.

If it's the "client" putting pressure on you through your wife, then walk away as it would seem that as others have said you will have nothing but trouble from the job going forwards.

Alan

JacobPhoto wrote in post #17981626
Walk away. You'll never make anybody happy.

I absolutely agree 100%!

Naw it's not as nefarious as client pitting my wife against me. I think she wants to play devils advocate sometimes to make sure I'm not getting too greedy I guess. I appreciate your thoughts, Al.

BigAl007 wrote in post #17981782
Is this a case of them putting pressure on you through your wife, because of the price that you have quoted, or is it just your wife getting involved where perhaps she shouldn't be? If it is a case of the latter, then point out to her who must be obeyed that what they are asking for is actually at a minimum 5 family shoots, plus the big group, and that really that should be a $1250 job based on your local pricing. Add that since you also have to produce the results in a compressed time frame, that the job will be more complicated, and that you would need to hire a competent assistant out of the fee as well. It actually strikes me that this sounds more like a $2000 job even based on seven families and the group in a tight time frame, so offering it at under $500 is already crazy cheap.

If it's the "client" putting pressure on you through your wife, then walk away as it would seem that as others have said you will have nothing but trouble from the job going forwards.

Alan

I agree 100%, too.

Silver-Halide wrote in post #17981903
Naw it's not as nefarious as client pitting my wife against me. I think she wants to play devils advocate sometimes to make sure I'm not getting too greedy I guess. I appreciate your thoughts, Al.

Well tell the wife that you already underquoted by $1500 and have a good watch of her face .

Alan

I'd expect a church to be the kind of community that would step up as a mutual-aid society when a member had an extraordinary need, such as an incapacitating illness, but I don't think it's necessary to offer members a huge discount on a personal service that's essentially optional, such as photography. If these families planning their event asked you to cover it because they want to avoid paying the market rate, they're the greedy ones, not you. (In fairness, they may not know what the market rate is.)

I stand by what I said earlier and agree with all the other posters above, but will add that there are legitimate ways to accommodate a larger group. If you normally offer 20 finished shots in a family shoot and you have 4 families you don't have to charge 4 times your normal family shoot. You can offer a reduced number of finished shots per family. That doesn't mean you shoot them all for the price of one family. There are still extra costs in time and management for a larger group, but reducing the number of delivered shots per family can go some way to reducing the total cost. Of course if they each want a full family shoot then you have to stand by your pricing. Maybe a small discount for bulk (you are shooting four jobs in one location without having to do extra travel) but beyond that....