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FORUMS General Gear Talk Camera Vs. Camera 
Thread started 26 Apr 2016 (Tuesday) 22:17
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Nikons new D500 vs the Canon 7DII

 
CyberDyneSystems
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Post edited over 4 years ago by CyberDyneSystems. (2 edits in all)
     
Jun 01, 2016 15:01 |  #106

skid00skid00 wrote in post #18026037 (external link)
...

For the readers out there, DPR broke the embargo date for releasing news on a Canon camera. ...

Did they?
Is there a link to that from a reliable source?

Not saying it's not the way it went down, I'm just still saying there are two sides to every story.
DPR was mad at Canon, Canon was mad at DPR, this we know. But who started it and how, I don't know.
(..and yes I'd be curious to see the real facts!)

Please, if you must, focus on "slants" rather than simply answering questions or backing them up with fact, however I must advise that in a thread that has just garnered one members permanent ban, you may want to refrain from insulting anyone's *intelligence*.
It's not subtle enough for Mods to not notice.


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gjl711
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Jun 01, 2016 15:14 |  #107

Yea, I put in the wrong link. This (external link) is the one I was thinking of but re-reading it, it's just standard Canon boilerplate. Interesting blurb at the top though.


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CyberDyneSystems
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Post edited over 4 years ago by CyberDyneSystems.
     
Jun 01, 2016 15:16 |  #108

gjl711 wrote in post #18026151 (external link)
Yea, I put in the wrong link. This (external link) is the one I was thinking of but re-reading it, it's just standard Canon boilerplate. Interesting blurb at the top though.


Oh yeah, that's part of the public airing out we saw!

You can see how mad Phil is, but at he same time I read him as sounding noticeably miphed that Canon doesn't want to treat DPR special. (my take) All these years later I can't tell which was the more petulant child :)


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LincsRP
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Jun 01, 2016 16:32 |  #109

Thank you Jake for refreshing my memory. I could remember the falling out but had forgotten exactly over what between Canon and DPR. In the 1D3 details DPR have stated they "took thousands of photos but due to an office move, intake and training of lots of new staff they never did get to publish the 1D3 review."

Having bookmarked DPR in my browser it's a site I've followed closely over the years and in the early days of Phil Askey it was in my opinion a very consistent reference point for the latest and greatest bit of kit.


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Scoobert
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Post edited over 4 years ago by Scoobert. (3 edits in all)
     
Jun 01, 2016 20:52 |  #110

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18025997 (external link)
I don't know about any vendetta, but I will say this, when the 1D3 was released, there was in fact a public falling out between DPR and Canon. It was unclear if the fault lay with Canon for changing the game for who and how one got early copies to review etc,. which was what DPReview was pretty much saying publicly, or if as in Canon's eyes, it was that Canon was less likely to play DPR as a favorite, forcing DPR to get copies along with everyone else.
Different views, no idea which if either is more valid.

At the time DPReview had recently established itself as THE top dog in digital camera reviews, but this was a fairly recent crown and less dominant than they are now. It is a crown they deserved, with the most consistently thorough reviews, easy to compare one vs. another etc. It was a popularity winning format, on the most consistently navigable website. ( Many of DPR's competitors/colleagues have since disappeared or become mush less relevant, Rob Galbraith, Steve's Digicams, Luminous Landscape, etc. as further evidence of DPRs dominance/popularity in the area)

I'm not sure how likely it would be to able to dig up the statements from DPR at the time of this falling out with Canon, but they did in fact speak publicly pretty strongly about how they felt, that DPR's opinion was Canon was doing a disservice to their customers by preventing DPR reviews from happening in a timely manner.

In fact, this falling out around the 1D3 specifically resulted in the FIRST time DPR was not able to field a timely review of a top their DSLR like the 1D series, indeed, long after the camera was available to all, DPR appeared to snub Canon and the 1D3 by refusing to review it for (nearly?) two years. Again, that was a first.


Thanks Jake, I knew nothing about their fallout which is why I was asking if there was any proof of this.

The main reason I question the forum user about proof was that In large part to the DPR review and its gold star rating was my purchase of the 70D. I ending up with a focus nightmare that took well over a hundred dollars in shipping and months without a new camera before finally getting a fixed one. Granted DPR knew nothing about the focus problems some 70D's had but if they had a vendetta against canon and would have rated it lower than other camera's I wouldn't have bought one :)
I can see them not liking canon because of their policies but I really haven't seen anything that shows them to be making the canon camera's out any worse than they really are. Other than some people's view that if a certain brand of camera they own gets a bad review compared to the other brand, well then the reviewer must be biased.

I am still really glad I got a new 5diii (even this late into camera cycle) and wouldn't trade it for the D500. But there is no discounting how great the D500 seems to be MANY reviewers (several of them canon shooters) have mcalled it the best crop camera yet and IMO its body is far better than the 7dii, its lenses and flash...not so sure




  
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CyberDyneSystems
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Jun 01, 2016 21:22 |  #111

New crop of Nikons are amazing. D500 looks to be the class leader for a few years anyway. D5 an 1Dx2 are very competitive.

I LOVE my 5D3 too! I can't see parting with that one. That said, who knows what 5D4 will bring :)


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Jun 02, 2016 01:29 as a reply to  @ CyberDyneSystems's post |  #112

I have friends with both Nikon Canon and sony cameras and they all say the same thing, different cameras for different things, 5DIII seems to be a fave among them especially with the really nice Prime lenses like 135L and 200F2L. I really like my 7DII and so far it has been spot on focus wise and the images are very good from it. after looking carefully through photos taken by both the 7DII and D500 (by good photographers) the images are pretty close, D500 has slightly better high ISO to my eye but not enough to make me sell up and go over to Nikon any time soon. Too much money tied up in lenses


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George ­ Zip
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Jun 02, 2016 06:44 |  #113

I was under the impression that's it's more about the glass than the camera.

My understanding is that Canon lead the way in good lenses.

I may be wrong as I really do not know. Only repeating what I have heard.

The other thing is, when I watch sporting events, its seems that the vast vast majority of photographers are still using Canon. Must be something in that.

But I echo what others have said.... who cares?? Seriously, as long as you like whatever it is you use and if other people like it.




  
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skid00skid00
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Jun 02, 2016 13:36 as a reply to  @ CyberDyneSystems's post |  #114

I remember reading an article written by Phil Askey himself, detailing how he felt put-upon by Canon. It's not important enough for me to spend time on.

I'll try to decrease your mod time, I know it's not a pleasant job.




  
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gjl711
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Jun 02, 2016 13:44 |  #115

George Zip wrote in post #18026677 (external link)
I was under the impression that's it's more about the glass than the camera. ...

In the film days this is most definitely true but in the digital realm, I think the body is also just as important as well as it now basically contains our film. The differences I admit are not great but there are differances and some bodies do much better at certain tasks than others.


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Jun 02, 2016 15:37 |  #116

The more reviews that come out on the D500 the more I'll think I'll wait to order one if I do at all.Yeah it's getting a lot of hype now but in reality it's probably only 1/2 stop high ISO better than my 7DMKII,autofocus is probably a little better than my 7dMKII but the autofocus on my MKII is pretty dang good,can't say I'm missing any shots because of it.

I don't shoot video so moot point there,both have flicker,both have 10fps.With that all said if it eventually comes down to $1500 I'll probably go for one.

One things for sure,DPreview sure is giddy about it but they seem to love Sony/Nikon.


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PeterAlex7
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Jun 03, 2016 04:54 |  #117

He said nikon lens especially their primes was better than canon's based on lenscore rating. The one thing that makes me smile is, canon 300mm f2.8L IS II has lower resolving power than other lens in top 15 while on dxo side, the canon 300mm is the sharpest lens available, leaving 3 zeiss monsters behind. I decide i would not trust any of them




  
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eli2055
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Jun 03, 2016 08:50 |  #118

perhaps i am wrong here, but it seems to me that both Nikon & Canon produce cameras that can, in
the hands of even a marginally informed user, produce high quality images. Composition, lighting,
timing all speak to the user's abilities. Now, i speak here as a nikon user who is not thrilled by my
D610's autofocus system, particularly it seems weak when i am photographing my 18 month old
grandson. There are too many misses. Apart from that, a knowledgeable user should be able to
produce images (raw and jpeg) that are beautiful if knowledge and good equipment (lenses) are used.
I too wonder if my images would be improved by canon lenses, and i like the look of canon colors before
editing. (I don't enjoy working on raw files) I love this website because i can view such wonderful images.
SO, whether you have a nikon D500, or a nikon D7000 (have it, no longer use it) or D610, or a 5D mark iii
(two photo friends have this and love it), 6D, 7D mark iii, the tools are there to be creative . . . . .
I have learned this from reading POTN, scrutinizing the photos, and even learning from the dialogues.
THanks to all . . .. . . .
And i really enjoy reading discussions where mutual respect and a desire to engage in positive dialogue
guide the thread...
thanks again for your informative discussions!




  
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Jun 05, 2016 09:23 |  #119

PeterAlex7 wrote in post #18027604 (external link)
He said nikon lens especially their primes was better than canon's based on lenscore rating. The one thing that makes me smile is, canon 300mm f2.8L IS II has lower resolving power than other lens in top 15 while on dxo side, the canon 300mm is the sharpest lens available, leaving 3 zeiss monsters behind. I decide i would not trust any of them

The problem with lens testing these days is that nobody actually tests lenses any more. All the lens testing you see done on the review sites is done using a digital camera body, so it is impossible to get consistent measurements between manufacturers. Not to mention the fact that over time the camera, and thus sensor, used for testing changes. Ideally one would use a proper lens testing bench to do the tests with, and back in the 80's some of the print magazines did have them in their test labs, the problem is that they are very expensive, and none of the now internet based review sites have the sort of money needed to do truly good testing at that level. Back when we all shot film the problem wasn't so bad with using a body to do the tests. All you needed to do was load each camera up with the same film, it wouldn't then matter if you used the most basic of introductory level bodies, a twenty year old one, or even the very latest top of the range models, all they were were a light tight box to hold the film. As long as the shutter was reasonably accurate you were fine to go. If only things were that easy today.

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Jun 09, 2016 02:40 |  #120

the technology deployed in bodies (sensor, AF, ergonomics, etc) is upgraded very fast while the technology deployed in glass (optics, IS/VR/etc) is kinda fairly conservative (except Sigma).

So when comparing bodies between manufacturers, one has to also consider the "system" aspects which is the glass department.
good luck choosing!

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Nikons new D500 vs the Canon 7DII
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