Improving 'Pin Prick" Catch Lights in Pupils

I'm working on editing a series of photographs, and I have "pin prick" catch lights in the pupils. I've tried shooting the photos with my flash on the camera, on a bracket, and with a modifier with the flash on the bracket (20x30cm soft box), but I'm being left with these (awful) catchlights no matter what I seem to do with my speed light (600ex-rt). I've resigned myself to just having to deal with these things if I'm using on camera flash.

These photographs are specifically an experiment with on camera flash: to get confident using it as outside fill flash when required. I'm pleased with my off camera strobe and octobox produced catchlights.

My specific objections with the catchlights are that they are too tiny, too harsh, and ultimately in the "wrong place." I'd like to see them a little larger and softer, and moved to just above the pupil or just to the left of pupil.

Using the "red eye" tool to remove them results in very artificial looking pupils.

Heya,

The problem is, you're using on camera flash, pointed in the direction of the subject. It has a small surface area making it a small light source point for the distance to subject that it is. The catch light will be like you have above, when it's on your camera, and you're at the same axis/plane as the subject point of interesting--producing that dead center pin point catch light. This is not something you're doing wrong, it's not something you can change either, since the light is fixed in a location, and is a small surface are for distance to subject consideration. To change the size and location of the catch light, you would have to use an indirect method of flashing--like bounce.

I kind of get the idea, you're wanting to use the flash in daylight on your camera. It's convenient. But, the compromise to that convenience is that your light is in a fixed location and will appear as a small surface light source for distance.

My suggestion to you then is to look into a flexible surface that attaches to the flash, like a Rogue Flash Bender (the newer bigger one). Your light will soften a bit, the surface area to subject distance is better, and it will be easier to blend into ambient light.

Also, compose and position yourself so that the flash surface isn't right in front of the subject, where it will center in their pupil. That may mean shooting from a different angle and cropping the negative space, but it will change the angle of the light to subject, and where the catch light falls.

Very best,

MalVeauX wrote in post #18015224
Heya,

The problem is, you're using on camera flash, pointed in the direction of the subject. It has a small surface area making it a small light source point for the distance to subject that it is. The catch light will be like you have above, when it's on your camera, and you're at the same axis/plane as the subject point of interesting--producing that dead center pin point catch light. This is not something you're doing wrong, it's not something you can change either, since the light is fixed in a location, and is a small surface are for distance to subject consideration. To change the size and location of the catch light, you would have to use an indirect method of flashing--like bounce.

I kind of get the idea, you're wanting to use the flash in daylight on your camera. It's convenient. But, the compromise to that convenience is that your light is in a fixed location and will appear as a small surface light source for distance.

My suggestion to you then is to look into a flexible surface that attaches to the flash, like a Rogue Flash Bender (the newer bigger one). Your light will soften a bit, the surface area to subject distance is better, and it will be easier to blend into ambient light.

Also, compose and position yourself so that the flash surface isn't right in front of the subject, where it will center in their pupil. That may mean shooting from a different angle and cropping the negative space, but it will change the angle of the light to subject, and where the catch light falls.

Very best,

Drat. I didn't make myself clear.

I do realize why this is happening with the on camera flash. I meant how can I improve them in Photoshop. Sorry. I thought that would be obvious since I posted this in the Post Processing forum.

I feel terrible when people type up really awesome answers for me, but they aren't the answers I'm looking for, as I haven't been clear with my questions.

Have you tried to clone out the pinpoint, clone/paint in a catchlight, & didn't like the results?
https://www.google.com …hop+paint+in+a+​catchlight

PhotosGuy wrote in post #18015233
Have you tried to clone out the pinpoint, clone/paint in a catchlight, & didn't like the results?
https://www.google.com …hop+paint+in+a+​catchlight

I've tried to eliminate the existing catchlights a few different ways. I wasn't pleased with the results. Your search terms are a bit different from the ones I used, and only one of the links returned in the first page of your search was returned in my search. I'll have a look through the links returned in your search.

I took a shot at it Shelley, pretty much what Frank said:

Here is my try, in photoshop elements..

Doh! Sorry, I understand now, you're after how to correct it in software...

It would probably be layer masks in Photoshop. Layer 1, remove catch light by painting in the pupil with the duplicate color of the pupil (use eye dropper and sample it). Paint it at the pixel level, very high magnification, so you can keep it in the pupil. Any catch light spilling out of the pupil, sample the surrounding color and also just paint by just putting dots in the area of the catchlight until it blends in better (it doesn't have to be perfect, just enough to mask that it's there). Layer 2, create a catch light that is the color, shape and intensity that you want. You could paint this on with a circle or use an existing shape and just make it white or off white. Catchlights are hard edge, so don't use soft edge stuff really. Apply a gentle guassian blur to it, to keep it from looking too artificial. And then change the opacity until it looks as natural as you like.

That's what my initial thoughts are, though I don't really do this stuff. Sorry!

Very best,

neacail wrote in post #18015205
I'm working on editing a series of photographs, and I have "pin prick" catch lights in the pupils...
My specific objections with the catchlights are that they are too tiny, too harsh, and ultimately in the "wrong place." I'd like to see them a little larger and softer, and moved to just above the pupil or just to the left of pupil.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can best go about improving the catchlights in post? (This question has been updated for clarity)

Only use of a LARGER SIZED source...in the correct placement, which according to your description is lightly HIGHER than eye level and to camera left, away a bit from camera!

THINK THIS: "A catchlight is merely a reflection of the light source, seen in the eye!!!"

The problem with changing the catchlights is that then the shadows make no sense and the image looks jarring. Even more when one puts the catchlights on the wrong side!

Heya,

By the way, another thought that isn't processing, to help out:

Instead of keeping the flash on the camera, you can go off camera and hold it in your other hand. You don't need a stand and modifier and all that. You can literally just hold the flash out off axis and angle it down. Use remote transceivers so that they can talk (like ETTL capable ones). You can do that even without a modifier, and change the overall angle that the catch light will appear. It will still be pin point and small, but at least it will not be in the pupil dead center, and you can remove the need to do serious editing/processing. To make it less pin point in post, you just enhance the flare, instead of trying to remove & add it.

This way you can use flash during the day, any where, and it's still not weird having all the gear. You're just holding the flash when you want to use it, otherwise, drop it back in the bag. When not using it, it's not on your camera too, which is nice.

Very best,

this?

You folks are awesome. I'm surprised that three of you placed the catchlight you created almost on top of the faint secondary catchlight that is in his eyes as a result of the light reflected off the sky. It isn't even really noticeable in the jpg I uploaded.

None of the individual edits are quite what I'm personally trying to accomplish, but I could combine elements from every edit with elements from other edits to come pretty close to what I'm looking for. I think the combo that comes closest to what I'm trying to accomplish is ksbal's catchlights with Grizz's pupils. This gives me hope. My version is terrible. Lol.

I did mess up the exposure on the three photos from this specific series (I shot four separate series of photos yesterday, testing this out). I underexposed for the ambient by a stop and I should have had the flash compensation set about a stop lower then I did.

Wilt wrote in post #18015296
Only use of a LARGER SIZED source...in the correct placement, which according to your description is lightly HIGHER than eye level and to camera left, away a bit from camera!

THINK THIS: "A catchlight is merely a reflection of the light source, seen in the eye!!!"

Yes. I'm working on this for times when I can't move the flashgun away from the camera: because what I'm doing was not planned, I have limited gear with me, and I'm using heavy equipment that I need to hold with both hands (in the case of this photo, a gripped 5D3 with an 85L . . . which is a combination that is heavy enough I need one hand on the camera and the other cradling the lens).

Alveric wrote in post #18015298
The problem with changing the catchlights is that then the shadows make no sense and the image looks jarring. Even more when one puts the catchlights on the wrong side!

I messed up the exposure on this one which makes things a bit weird to look at. There is a secondary catch light that runs from around 10 o'clock to 12 o'clock in his left eye, and from about 10 o'clock to 11 o'clock in his right eye. But, even in the two series of photos where I got the exposure and fill light properly balanced there are still pin prick catch lights in the pupils from the flashgun. The catch lights from the ambient light are stronger than in this photo though, and there isn't any shadow weirdness.

This photo is fairly messed up compared to the others, so I figure it is a good one to experiment on as far as learning how to remove an unwanted catchlight and augmenting a different one (if I feel it is required). In the case of this photo the one needing "augmentation" basically needs built from scratch.

There are a couple of other things that I'm experimenting with this one on too (the "Apply Image" function for example . . . which I just learned about in the latest Photoshop course that I'm taking). There is a whole bunch of really weird stuff going on in the six (three background and three foreground) layers in this photo.

No worries, Alveric. I (almost) always put my lighting fakery in the correct place.