Should have switched to FF a long time ago

I just made the upgrade from a 60D (crop) to a 6D (FF). This is awesome!!! I believed all the threads and articles about "FF is overrated" and "no need to 'upgrade' to FF". Should have ignored that four years ago, when I upgraded from my old rebel. Low and mid light performance is so much better. I do a lot of candid event shots. Struggled for years to blend in the flash properly for indoor shots, so that I can avoid higher ISO on my 60D (everything above 400 is really grainy and above 1600 just awful). Just got soooo much easier as I now have much more headroom to shoot without a flash.
Love my FF and wish I would have made the jump much much earlier....

congrats..

You will (almost) never ever hear anyone who has shot both FF and crop to say FF is overrated. It may not be required or needed but its definitely not overrated. In my experience its usually people justifying to themselves that their crop sensor is fine, its is, but it doesn't provide the benefits that a FF does.

i really cant tell the shots taken from my old 60D and the 5dii i use now at iso 100 and f8 or so but at shallow dof and in higher ISO its not even close.

Crop sensors are just now catching up to what FF sensors were doing 10+ years ago.

I felt the same way when I made the switch from my T2i to my 6D, but honestly now I see that it's more because the 18mp Canon sensors just aren't on par with the newer ones and with the competition. Most of the time (low light being the exception) shots from my X-E2 are just as good as anything I got with my 6D or a7S.

Either way, congratulations on the upgrade, the 6D is a fantastic camera and I'm sure you'll enjoy it for a good while

mike_311 wrote in post #18034294
You will (almost) never ever hear anyone who has shot both FF and crop to say FF is overrated. It may not be required or needed but its definitely not overrated. In my experience its usually people justifying to themselves that their crop sensor is fine, its is, but it doesn't provide the benefits that a FF does.

I am an exception. I have a full frame and a 1.6 crop and a 1.3 crop. The 1.3 gets used most of the time, the 1.6 gets infrequent backup use, and the full frame sits there barely ever getting used. Why? Because the 1.3 crop and the 1.6 crop simply produce better images of the stuff I take pictures of. I have tens of thousands of images from all 3 sensors, and I make a significant part of my income from selling stock, so I can't afford to be wrong. The crops suit my image-making needs better than the full frame. The final image is what counts, and more often than not, the crop bodies will result in a better final image.

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Nah...one benefit I see here is the larger viewfinder than a crop. You can see more and even change your AF points without removing your eye from the eye cup. Other than that...is really not that much different. Maybe 1 stop better in low light high ISO situation....but most of the today's crop bodies do have better high ISO performance anyway.

The only Full Frame camera I own is a 5Dc. It's really just a backup camera. I use my 1D IV for just about everything.

Wait until you try medium format, when I shoot 3200 ISO film I cant even see the grain. Comes out super clean!

Now I'm looking into 4x5 and 8x10, caught the large format bug.

When I was looking to upgrade my T3i it really came down to the 7D and the 5Dii. I eventually went with the 7D and so far I think I made the right choice. I wanted a fast camera being that I shoot skateboarding, so upgrading to 19 all crosstype focus points and 8fps amazed me. If I bought the 5Dii I would've essentially had the same focus and burst mode I had before; which wasn't really cutting it. Obviously a 1Dx or maybe a 5Diii would've given me what I wanted and more but I definitely didn't have the funds then (or now, and probably never for a 1Dx) but I'm willing to bet I'm happier with my 7D than I would be with a 5Dii.

I felt that way when I got my first full frame the 5DC but even more so when I got the 5DII. Then I started noticing my nature shots from 5DII were pretty much not that great unless I could be really close. I continued on with my 7D for wildlife and the 5DII for landscape portrait. Then the 5DIII came out and everyone said this camera was the bomb, it could take over in every kind of photography. so I got one and sold my 7D (my husband had a 7D so I thought well if I really need one Id just use his) over time I noticed I missed the 7D speed and reach and often used the hubby's. so I got a Tamron 150-600 and I thought great, now I have the sort of reach I had from the 7D at 400mm. But to be honest, the lack of frames per second after having used the 7D made me realise, there really is no perfect camera. Now I have a 7DII and for the most part it is more used than my 5DIII. sensor development has improved so much now that many people dont need full frame. Dont get me wrong, I love my 5DIII but if I edit my photos often I have to check the data to pick between 7DII and 5DIII. so now the full frame is used when I want shallow DOF in portraits or I go out to just shoot landscapes. The 7DII pretty much can do anything else and is way more fun to use than 5DIII. You only have to look at flickr and most times you cant pick which camera was full frame or crop. so Ive come full circle. There is no perfect camera, you just use the tool that suits the situation.

I too switched from a 60D to a 6D.

After switching I doubt I will ever want to go back to a APS-C camera. I love the huge view finder and the incredible low light capabilities that the 6D provides.

But I noticed that while I used to use the 60D with a Sigma 30mm f/1.4, I did not feel that I were getting the same FOV when I switched to a 6D with a Sigma 50mm f/1.4. I can't really explain it. The subjects just didn't fill the same amount of picture space as I expected.

Also, looking back at the last 6 months shooting a 6D, I don't find my pictures to have some kind of magical "Full Frame magic" to them.

I will absolutely recommend Full Frame, but I think it is worth mentioning that Full Frame is by no means a Silver Bullet that ensure perfect results every time.

Full frame certainly is a step up, in many respects. I went from a 60D to a 6D, also. It took me about a year to replace all my ef-s lenses with EF. Then I thought I missed the reach of APS-c, and AI-Servo on the 6D is mediocre, at best. So, I got a 70D. For most shots, it didn't matter if I used 70D or 6D: long work on the 70D and thin DOF on the 6D. Everything else didn't matter. Then I briefly got into video, and picked up ef-s 10-18, 18-55, and 55-250. After a few months I decided I really suck at video and sold all the aps-c stuff, AGAIN!

Then I tried using the 6D for sports/action stuff. I was not sure if the problem was me, or the 6D, but I was not satisfied. I bought a 1DIII about 6 weeks ago. That provided proof that it was not me; the 6D sucks at AI-Servo. I have shot two athletic events with my new 1DIII, totaling about 800 shots, plus some chimping along the way. Of the 800+ shots I brought home, I had exactly four (4!) OOF shots. Two were certainly my fault. I'll take the blame for the other two also. I am liking the results I am getting with the 1DIII so much that I bought a 1DIV. In order to get 1DIV performance out of a full frame body, I'd have to go to a 1DX (II?), which I can NOT afford. I hope I like the 1DIV as much, and it works as well as my 1DIII does. It arrives in about 4 hours.

I really do enjoy my full frame 6D, but it can't do what a 1DIV does. Full frame isn't everything, to everyone.

SIDEBAR:
I briefly considered the 7DII before buying the 1DIV. The AF issues, while few and far between, are still being reported. While making no comment about the 7DII because I've never shot one, the 1DIV is proven technology, and the AF is a LOT easier to configure (yes, I read manuals). That works for me. If I were focal-length challenged and needed 1.6X reach, I would have gotten a 7DII. Seems the vast majority of 7DII owners are happy with their camera.

Bassat wrote in post #18034910
Full frame certainly is a step up, in many respects. I went from a 60D to a 6D, also. It took me about a year to replace all my ef-s lenses with EF. Then I thought I missed the reach of APS-c, and AI-Servo on the 6D is mediocre, at best. So, I got a 70D. For most shots, it didn't matter if I used 70D or 6D: long work on the 70D and thin DOF on the 6D. Everything else didn't matter. Then I briefly got into video, and picked up ef-s 10-18, 18-55, and 55-250. After a few months I decided I really suck at video and sold all the aps-c stuff, AGAIN!

Then I tried using the 6D for sports/action stuff. I was not sure if the problem was me, or the 6D, but I was not satisfied. I bought a 1DIII about 6 weeks ago. That provided proof that it was not me; the 6D sucks at AI-Servo. I have shot two athletic events with my new 1DIII, totaling about 800 shots, plus some chimping along the way. Of the 800+ shots I brought home, I had exactly four (4!) OOF shots. Two were certainly my fault. I'll take the blame for the other two also. I am liking the results I am getting with the 1DIII so much that I bought a 1DIV. In order to get 1DIV performance out of a full frame body, I'd have to go to a 1DX (II?), which I can NOT afford. I hope I like the 1DIV as much, and it works as well as my 1DIII does. It arrives in about 4 hours.

I really do enjoy my full frame 6D, but it can't do what a 1DIV does. Full frame isn't everything, to everyone.

SIDEBAR:
I briefly considered the 7DII before buying the 1DIV. The AF issues, while few and far between, are still being reported. While making no comment about the 7DII because I've never shot one, the 1DIV is proven technology, and the AF is a LOT easier to configure (yes, I read manuals). That works for me. If I were focal-length challenged and needed 1.6X reach, I would have gotten a 7DII. Seems the vast majority of 7DII owners are happy with their camera.

I used to own a 1DIII and can 2nd that the focus ability was spot on, I had been a bit scared of getting one due to the reported autofocus issues on that camera but it was fine. I have many fine images from 1DIII and only sold it to help finance a 5dIII. The 7DII for me has been free of focus issues as well although I'm sure there were a few that had issues, I had tossed up between 1D4 and 7DII but apparently the image quality is similar and I wanted two cameras with similar ergonomics and 7DII and 5DIII are almost identical

Yes FF is usually better than crop. As you have seen, the exception is with the 1D series cameras. They are made for professional users and have excellent AF systems and FPS which something like a 5D2 cannot touch. If you are coming from any Rebel series camera, a FF camera is going to make your eyes open wide as you stare at the difference. The one thing that bugged me about my crop cameras is the crappy ISO performance. I think Canon is finally starting to step up, but still lagging begind by a good margin.

aladyforty wrote in post #18034956
I used to own a 1DIII and can 2nd that the focus ability was spot on, I had been a bit scared of getting one due to the reported autofocus issues on that camera but it was fine. I have many fine images from 1DIII and only sold it to help finance a 5dIII. The 7DII for me has been free of focus issues as well although I'm sure there were a few that had issues, I had tossed up between 1D4 and 7DII but apparently the image quality is similar and I wanted two cameras with similar ergonomics and 7DII and 5DIII are almost identical

I fully understand the 'similarity of controls' issue. It was relatively simple to go from 60D to 6D, and to use both at the same time. 6D and 1DIII, not so much. If I am going to keep my 6D as my full-frame body (I am), I just have to give up the 'similar controls' thing. Honestly, since I got the 1DIII about 6 weeks ago, I've hardly touched my 6D. I picked it up yesterday and had to re-think how to use it! A 1DX (II?) would solve my problems. Taking donations, now.

mikeinctown wrote in post #18034967
Yes FF is usually better than crop. As you have seen, the exception is with the 1D series cameras. They are made for professional users and have excellent AF systems and FPS which something like a 5D2 cannot touch. If you are coming from any Rebel series camera, a FF camera is going to make your eyes open wide as you stare at the difference. The one thing that bugged me about my crop cameras is the crappy ISO performance. I think Canon is finally starting to step up, but still lagging begind by a good margin.

I am not a professional shooter, in any sense of the word. I am a total gear-slut, though. That said, 1DIII and 1DIV are within my financial grasp, and do offer plenty my full frame 6D just can't do. If I wanted to go total full frame, I'd need a 1DX (II?). That is out of the question... for now.

I would not call the ISO performance of current (since 7Dc) bodies crappy. It ain't 6D/5D3/1DX level, but it gets the job done on a budget. Fast glass can help immensely. The difference between a 55-250 @ f/5.6 and a 70-200 II @ f/2.8 can get the shooter back into acceptable ISO range. Perhaps my perspective is skewed, but have you ever been limited to ASA 400 film? My 60D and 7Dc were of the same generation. I found 1600 use-able in JPG. 3200 was completely use-able raw. ISO 6400 on both required perfect exposure, and individual post-processing, but worked well enough. Until I bought a 6D, that is. I can shoot my 6D JPG at 12,800 and be happy. With all that behind us, I rarely shoot anything at 3200 and higher. But when I need to, it is nice to have something as good as the 6D. You are correct, current aps-c bodies can't touch that.

My non-full-frame 1DIV should be here in about 2 hours. I've only got 5-6 days to shoot it. I have to go back to work next Thursday after a whirlwind 3 year retirement. Whatever! Ya gotta eat.

I've used full frame cameras on several occasions, 1DX, 5DIII, and a 6D, and while I found aspects of the image quality better I can't say that they beat my old pair of 7D bodies for my needs.

Would I like a pair of 5DIII or 1D bodies? Sure. However I would like to spend that money on new glass to get more out of my 7D bodies now while I have them, and let sensor tech mature even more before I drop more coin on bodies. And when I do give up my aging 7D bodies, then I'll also have more and better glass to work with on whatever I do end up investing in.


But I have to say that I'm rather enjoying working with a Mamiya C330 in medium format. Still need to track down some more lenses for it, but I enjoying exploring such an old system and look forward to getting a darkroom setup to work with eventually. But for now it is building a negative collection and 'making do' with scans.