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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 10 Mar 2006 (Friday) 11:48
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Using the 580EX and 550EX flashes in manual mode

 
PacAce
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Mar 10, 2006 11:48 |  #1

OK, here are the basics of manual flash photography, assuming we're going to be using the flash as the main light source.

First off, the shutter speed has no effect on the flash other than that it should be set to max sync speed or lower. There are some flashes that have high speed sync that will allow you to use the flash at shutter speeds higher than max sync speed but I'm going to keep this post simple and just ignore them for now. For most purposes, a shutter speed of 1/60 to 1/200 or 1/250 is appropriate.

The next consideration is the aperture you want to use. This has a direct effect on the amount of flash light that is registered by the camera and hence affects the working distance of the flash for a given flash output. Aperture is usually determined by the DOF you want in the photo.

The third consideration is the ISO used. The higher the ISO, the farther the working distance of the flash becomes for a given flash output. ISO and aperture go hand in hand when using the flash in manual mode as they both affect the working flash-to-subject distance.

And the forth consideration for using the flash in manual mode, for those models that have this feature, is the flash power output setting you want to use. The flash output also determines the working distance of the flash.

The aperture and ISO settings you use can be determined after giving some thought to the resulting photo you would like to get or, as some people then to do, just set arbitrarily because that's the setting they always use when the camera is set to manual mode. :) But it is the flash-to-subject distance that will ultimately determine how the camera and flash are set up. This is because, for a given power output of the flash, there is only narrow range of flash-to-subject distance that will properly expose the subject. Move the subject a couple of feet away and he'll be underexosed. Move him up closer by a couple of feet and he'll be overexposed. What this means is that if you are going to be using the flash in manual mode, you need to be good at estimating distance or have a distance measuring device that can give you the flash-to-subject distance. If not, you'll probably end up taking several shots and checking the histogram after each one to check the exposure.

So, how do we use the flash in manual mode, you ask? To keep this simple let's assume that we want to use an aperture of f/8 because that'll give us an acceptably deep DOF. Let's also assume that we've selected a shutter speed of 1/60 since we'd like to get as much ambient lighting in the picture (we're indoors at night) and still be able to handhold the camera with the lens we're using, say a 50mm lens. ISO is set to 100. So, we have the camera in manual mode at f/8 @ 1/60 and ISO 100 using a 50mm lens.

Now, say you want to take a picture of your subject that is 3 meters away from the flash (Speedlite 580EX). The guide number of the 580EX is 42 (meters) at ISO 100 and 50mm.

The aperture (f) required for a subject so many meters (d) away for a given guide number (GN) is:

f = GN / d

or

f = 42 / 3 = 14

We therefore need to set the apeture to f/14 in order to get a properly exposed photo.

If you can be flexible with your aperture choice, then you can change the aperture setting of your camera from f/8 to f/14.

However, if you insist that it be set to f/8, then you have to adjust some other setting to get the correct exposure. You can:

1) move the subject so that he's a little farther away.
You would have to place him or her about 5 meters away (42/8 ) instead of 3.

2) decrease the output power of the flash.
If you decrease the power to 1/2, the GN changes to 29.7. This will give you an aperture of 9.9, slightly overexposing the subject if f/8 is used. Or, you can decrease the power to 1/4, giving you a GN of 21 and an aperture of f/7, slightly underexposing the the subject at f/8.

3) ISO can't be changed in this case since we're already at ISO 100, unless you wanted to try ISO 50 if your camera supports it. However, if the subject were farther away and beyond the reach of the flash at full power, then ISO can be increased to give you more reach.

4) do a combination two or more of the above.

If all the calculations shown above seem overbearing, fear not! The 580EX and the 550EX, in conjunction with the camera, can do all the calculations for you. All you need to know is your flash-to-subject distance and the camera and flash will do the rest for you.

When the flash is set to manual mode and the flash head is pointed straight ahead (i.e. not in the bounce position), you will see a single segment bar above the distance scale on the flash LCD. This bar indicates the distance the flash is good for for the camera settings (aperture and ISO) and the flash output power selected. If you change any of these settings (aperture, ISO and power), you will see the bar moving along the distance scale. The idea here is to make adjustment to the settings until the bar is over the distance mark that matches the flash-to-subject distance. If you have accurately determined the flash-to-subject distance, you exposure should be spot-on.

If you want to use the flash in bounce mode, you can still use the camera and flash to help you with the settngs. Before moving the head for bounce, leave the head in the straight-ahead position and determine the required camera and/or flash settings as described in the previous paragraph by using the flash-to-ceiling/wall-to-subject distance and then add about a stop more exposure to account for the bounce and loss of light.


...Leo

  
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jfrancho
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Mar 10, 2006 11:58 |  #2

This is great Leo. I think I may have some questions, but need a little time to compose my thoughts into words (very dangerous!).



  
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Michaelmjc
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Mar 10, 2006 14:04 |  #3

Awesome right up, very useful. Thanks.


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emidyl
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Mar 10, 2006 17:01 as a reply to  @ Michaelmjc's post |  #4

Leo,
Is the guide number supposed to be the same as for the 430? The guide number is 43 for the 430 as in 43 m. Wouldn't then the 580 have a max guide number of 58 (58m) as I was informed in a flash class that the Canon flash models represented the max light spread.
Despite the class I am still confused with flash use. Leave it in auto and let the camera and flash do the rest is my motto.

Cheers


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emidyl
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Mar 10, 2006 17:08 as a reply to  @ emidyl's post |  #5

Ooops, never mind.
Must look at focal length.


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PacAce
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Mar 10, 2006 17:11 as a reply to  @ emidyl's post |  #6

emidyl wrote:
Leo,
Is the guide number supposed to be the same as for the 430? The guide number is 43 for the 430 as in 43 m. Wouldn't then the 580 have a max guide number of 58 (58m) as I was informed in a flash class that the Canon flash models represented the max light spread.
Despite the class I am still confused with flash use. Leave it in auto and let the camera and flash do the rest is my motto.

Cheers

The guide number that's usually advertised and depicted as part of the model name such as 430EX is with the zoom head positioned at the longest tele position, i.e. 105mm. So, the guide number for the 580EX at 105mm is 58 @ ISO 100. But at 50mm it is only 43. It would be even lower for the 430EX at 50mm. I don't have teh 430EX manual but for the 420EX at 50mm, the GN is 34 so I would suspect teh 430EX would be very close to that.


...Leo

  
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PacAce
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Mar 10, 2006 17:13 as a reply to  @ emidyl's post |  #7

emidyl wrote:
Ooops, never mind.
Must look at focal length.

Oops, I responded to your other post before I saw this one. Oh, well. Maybe it'll benefit someone else. :)


...Leo

  
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Blue ­ Deuce
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Mar 11, 2006 06:44 as a reply to  @ PacAce's post |  #8

As a new owner of the 580 and a newb at using the flash in manual thanks for providing answers to questions I had.




  
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incendy
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Mar 13, 2006 00:38 |  #9

Thanks for this! One thing I am having troube with using manual on the 580ex is that I can't get the 420 to fire as slave. I read the manuel, but I don't understand how to do this. If I put it on TTL is fires no problem:) Just thought I would ask this here since it is about using 580 on manual


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PacAce
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Mar 13, 2006 08:02 as a reply to  @ incendy's post |  #10

incendy wrote:
Thanks for this! One thing I am having troube with using manual on the 580ex is that I can't get the 420 to fire as slave. I read the manuel, but I don't understand how to do this. If I put it on TTL is fires no problem:) Just thought I would ask this here since it is about using 580 on manual

Unfortunately, the 420EX can not be used in a manual ETTL remote wireless configuration because it cannot be set to manual mode.


...Leo

  
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wywso0
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Mar 13, 2006 09:14 |  #11

Is there anywhere a table or chart etc that shows the GN versus focal length and power setting?

Thanks
Bill S




  
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PacAce
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Mar 13, 2006 10:17 as a reply to  @ wywso0's post |  #12

wywso0 wrote:
Is there anywhere a table or chart etc that shows the GN versus focal length and power setting?

Thanks
Bill S

Yes, it's in the flash user's manual. But you really won't need it to use the 550EX or the 580EX in manual mode.


...Leo

  
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wywso0
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Mar 13, 2006 10:51 as a reply to  @ PacAce's post |  #13

Thanks. I fancy having a go with the multi-stroboscopic flash on the 580EX. Although it isn't the reason to get this unit, I've always wanted to be able to take strobe type pictures and with a digital body and this flash it seems that I can have a go for free. :)

I hadn't thought that it could really handle that on auto too, so I'd need to know what the manual settings were.




  
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PacAce
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Mar 13, 2006 12:21 as a reply to  @ wywso0's post |  #14

wywso0 wrote:
Thanks. I fancy having a go with the multi-stroboscopic flash on the 580EX. Although it isn't the reason to get this unit, I've always wanted to be able to take strobe type pictures and with a digital body and this flash it seems that I can have a go for free. :)

I hadn't thought that it could really handle that on auto too, so I'd need to know what the manual settings were.

Yes, the 580EX can handle the multi-strobes in auto mode. AAMOF, I think that's the only way it works, near as I can recall. But I guess it all depends on what you mean by auto since you'll still need to select certain flash parameters yourself. :)

Anyway, if you don't have a manual yet for the 580EX, you can download a copy from here:

http://eosdoc.com/manu​als/ (external link)

Just page down to the Canon Flash section.

BTW, welcome to the forum. :)


...Leo

  
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incendy
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Mar 13, 2006 14:02 as a reply to  @ PacAce's post |  #15

PacAce wrote:
Unfortunately, the 420EX can not be used in a manual ETTL remote wireless configuration because it cannot be set to manual mode.

That is kind of a relief, cause I was going crazy trying to make it work. I guess it is time to buy a new flash:). I don't know if you would know this or not, but would it be recomended to use the 580 in combo with a strobe light? I can't really afford to buy a whole studio setup for a hobby, but I was hoping I could get one really good light and then possible use two diffused flashes for the back light and fill light


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Using the 580EX and 550EX flashes in manual mode
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