Flash for Dummies (me); very basic questions

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18038397
Nor is it meant to be. I personally am not that much of a fan of "zero phase angle" imagery, but it was my friend's intended result, and he accomplishes precisely what he wants to with his setup, with light falling evenly on every part of the subject with no visible phase angle whatsoever. I'm not saying that it is a great way to make images, I just want to be sure to be able to do it when I think that such a technique would work well for a particular situation.

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gotcha.

Tom I know you don't like getting into the techie stuff with computers, but you are getting into a technical part of photography that has a big learning curve and requires both education and experience. My advice to you would be to buy the YN flash I linked above and a YN-622C. If you don't have a light stand and flash bracket you will need one of each of those.

Then get your feet wet. See what happens, explore the options, and later reassess what you hope to accomplish and in which order you wish to accomplish each of those items. If you end up thinking "man, this sucks." you can sell your set up for a modest loss.

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #18038410
gotcha.

Tom I know you don't like getting into the techie stuff with computers, but you are getting into a technical part of photography that has a big learning curve and requires both education and experience. My advice to you would be to buy the YN flash I linked above and a YN-622C. If you don't have a light stand and flash bracket you will need one of each of those.

Then get your feet wet. See what happens, explore the options, and later reassess what you hope to accomplish and in which order you wish to accomplish each of those items. If you end up thinking "man, this sucks." you can sell your set up for a modest loss.

Good advice. YN is less expensive and a good starting point.

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #18038390
Yes, ettl makes flashes "automatic" ... it allows them to instantly vary ouput depending on the subject, ambient, and camera settings.

generally speedlights that have ETTL are the ones that can do HSS. I think the cheapest Yongnou flash with HSS is about a hundred bucks.

edit: cheap YN with HSS http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …reless_ttl_spee​dlite.html

So, this flash (that you linked to) can do something that the $69 flash can't - ok, this is good info! Exactly the kind of info that I was hoping to get when I started the thread. Thank you so much!

So, does that mean that it will be able to be used when the camera is set to do fast shutter speeds, like, above 1/1000th of a second? If it can, and if the $69 can't, then it looks like I have been saved a lot of aggravation......I hate having to return stuff for a refund; takes forever, compared to just getting the right stuff in the first place.

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I think he linked the YN-685 which is showing up as unavailable on my iPad.

The YN568 for Canon has high speed sync and ETTL for $101. You may need radio triggers for it, though. Using the infrared wireless flash control outdoors can be a problem. A pair of YN622C transceivers are $80 and you'll need one for each speedlight and one for the camera. Since they're transceivers, two pair will control three speed lights from one camera.
This setup gets you high speed sync at all practical speeds, maybe even all the way to 1/8000. It also gets you e-ttl so you can let the camera decide how bright the flash should be if your subject is changing distance from the flash. It also gets you 2nd curtain sync so headlights trail a moving car instead of preceding it. The last one may not help you much, but it's there.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18038491
So, this flash (that you linked to) can do something that the $69 flash can't - ok, this is good info! Exactly the kind of info that I was hoping to get when I started the thread. Thank you so much!

So, does that mean that it will be able to be used when the camera is set to do fast shutter speeds, like, above 1/1000th of a second? If it can, and if the $69 can't, then it looks like I have been saved a lot of aggravation......I hate having to return stuff for a refund; takes forever, compared to just getting the right stuff in the first place.

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yes it is better, the 69 dollar one won't meet your needs.

here are the specs, page says In Stock and ready to ship btw, get some Enloop batteries off amazon if BH doesn't have them. You will need 6 total, buy 12 so you can have back up. A standard enloop charger will get you started.

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Wow!, Brian! Thanks for all that info; it is much appreciated, although I don't fully understand all of it. Biut I'm going to try to figure it all out.

One thing I do not need from a flash system is for the camera to figure out what power the flash should be set at.
I plan to chimp a lot; guess at what the power should be, take a test shot, examine it on the LCD on the back of the camera, make an adjustment to the flash, take another test shot, examine that, etc - on and on until I get exactly what I am looking for.
I don't think I'd ever trust a camera to make creative/artistic decisions for me, and the ratio between ambient light and flash light is, to me, an artistic (and not a technical) decision.
It's not about getting the right exposure- rather, it is about getting the right look, feel, and mood that I have envisioned for any particular shot.

In other words, I really, really need this:

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #18038532
High-speed sync to 1/8000 second fast sync

TerryMiller wrote in post #18038520
This setup gets you high speed sync at all practical speeds, maybe even all the way to 1/8000.

But I don't need this at all:

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #18038532
ETTL is where the flash figures out its own power ... so long as your camera and flash are in that mode. The 622 will allow ETTL when the flash is not directly on the camera.

TerryMiller wrote in post #18038520
It also gets you e-ttl so you can let the camera decide how bright the flash should be if your subject is changing distance from the flash.

So, all that being said, do I need ETTL? Can I shoot higher than "synch speed" without ETTL, or is it required to shoot at fast shutter speeds?

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I just happened to post a guide to the Godox radio flash system yesterday - http://flashhavoc.com/​godox-flash-system-overview/

Godox have the cheapest HSS enabled radio slave flashes ($69) in the TT600, and the XT-32 transmitter for Canon.

The TT600 don't do ETTL, but you don't need that, just the HSS.


They are not bottom of the barrel cheap though, really a great start in a system you can expand into various off camera lighting.

elv wrote in post #18038764
I just happened to post a guide to the Godox radio flash system yesterday - http://flashhavoc.com/​godox-flash-system-overview/

Godox have the cheapest HSS enabled radio slave flashes ($69) in the TT600, and the XT-32 transmitter for Canon.

The TT600 don't do ETTL, but you don't need that, just the HSS.


They are not bottom of the barrel cheap though, really a great start in a system you can expand into various off camera lighting.

Wow, Elv, you have once again knocked it out of the park! Great write up, thanks for sharing. I have purposely been avoiding the Flash and Studio Lighting board to keep my gear envy in check and have missed out on the latest from Godox. You just ruined three or four months of keeping my head in the sand!

Your XT32 page does not list pricing or availability, saying that more info is coming at the end of May.

http://flashhavoc.com …32-transmitter-announced/

Are you still waiting on this info and the official release?


Tom, I understand where you are coming from by saying that you feel that you not need automatic flash, it is a rare occurrence that I shoot with auto/ETTL flash in controlled conditions. I grew up with fully manual flash and cameras and placing my trust in the camera and flash to work together took some getting use to. However, it is my opinion, and it is shared by a number of Flash and Studio Lighting regulars, that having an ETTL capable flash in the bag as your first dedicated flash, is the right way to go. Even if you rarely use it, it is better to have it and rarely use it than not have it and need it.

The smartest lighting gurus on this sub forum are those that can set up multiple off camera flashes, put them in ETTL mode and using some of the more advanced techniques get results every bit as "customized" as using manual flash alone. There are those that say (i used to be in this group) that using ETTL is some kind of crutch, I'm here to say that is just not the case.

You can be every bit as creative with your use of multiple flashes in ETTL as you can in fully manual. You will miss fewer shots, you will gain a certain level of freedom, and you will work faster once you figure out ETTL.

Back to what Elv is suggesting. I have some Godox equipment, it works great and i will certainly continue my investment in their system. They are quickly becoming, if they aren't already, the leader in the field. That said, if the XT-32 trasmitter is not out and tested "in the wild" I would wait. Plus, I am assuming that while you will save on the Godox 69 dollar flash, I suspect you will pay more for the transmitter. Most importantly you will miss out on ETTL functionality that I believe you could very well use.

The "Flash Exposure Compensation" (FEC) feature on your camera allows 6 stops of latitude so that you can be creative with how much or little ETTL flash is apparent in your final image. One can easily create photos that you probably wouldn't know even used a flash because the photographer dialed down (or up) FEC. I could show you plenty of of these type ETTL shots except that I really need to finish this post, this cup of coffee, and get the hell out of here.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18038730
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So, all that being said, do I need ETTL? Can I shoot higher than "synch speed" without ETTL, or is it required to shoot at fast shutter speeds?

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okay one last thing before i hit the road.

ETTL is basically required for HSS when the flash is on the camera, the flash and camera have extra contacts on the hotshoe/foot that allow better communication, and thus, HSS

with off camera flash it is possible to have HSS with a flash that is not ETTL capable. This is enabled because the transmitter that sits on top of the camera has those same extra contacts and communicates with the camera in a way that fools the camera into sending the early HSS signal. The transmitter then passes that on to the non-ETTL flash in a way that HSS works.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18038730
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Wow!, Brian! Thanks for all that info; it is much appreciated, although I don't fully understand all of it. Biut I'm going to try to figure it all out.

One thing I do not need from a flash system is for the camera to figure out what power the flash should be set at.
I plan to chimp a lot; guess at what the power should be, take a test shot, examine it on the LCD on the back of the camera, make an adjustment to the flash, take another test shot, examine that, etc - on and on until I get exactly what I am looking for.
I don't think I'd ever trust a camera to make creative/artistic decisions for me, and the ratio between ambient light and flash light is, to me, an artistic (and not a technical) decision.
It's not about getting the right exposure- rather, it is about getting the right look, feel, and mood that I have envisioned for any particular shot.

In other words, I really, really need this:

But I don't need this at all:

So, all that being said, do I need ETTL? Can I shoot higher than "synch speed" without ETTL, or is it required to shoot at fast shutter speeds?

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If I were you I'd spend a little more and get ETTL. When I did event photography, photo booths and portraits I would always use manual if I had the time but I would not own a flash without ETTL. Besides, as stated you need it for HSS.

Here is one with ETTL and it was so dark I could barely focus on it.

If you are shooting at distance you may consider this device. I used it in that lizard shot.

http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …X3_Better_Beame​r_for.html

https://images.search.​yahoo.com …?p=Better+Beame​r&fr=yfp-t

Lots of stuff in this thread already so I'm going to address things a bit different.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18038244
He did it in such a way that he still used very low shutter speeds, like 1/200th of a second.

Looking at the setup I can believe it. Small cheap strobes when dialed down to low power have a very short flash duration. With the distance they are shown at they were probably about as low as they could go. That means the flash is freezing the wings, not the shutter. If the exif information is correct you should not have ambient light in open shade.

When you compare the size of a flash head to the size of a hummingbird you actually have a very large light source. In looking at that setup he has created a very large lightbox for the birds. Very good use of cheap flashes.

So the real question is what do you want to accomplish and what is your budget?

Is hummingbirds your passion? If so then follow the same path. Buy a handful of TT600's for $70 a pop. You can either shoot at low power or shoot HSS. TTL does not matter since once you dial it in things don't change.

If you want TTL you are going to have to step it up a bit. By far the most versatile bang for the buck, IMO, is the V860II. At $200 it seems to be quite a bargain. I can't speak directly on it but it would be my first choice if I were in the market.

Like others have stated, Godox is nailing the flash market. I'm in the process of switching out all my lights as budget permits.

I agree with the ETTL statement unless you're certain that you won't use it. You can't be if you've never used flash.

The setup you showed captured the hummingbirds at a stationary feeder. The lights could be set at one power and every exposure would be the same sincere the distance between the birds and the flash is fixed. You may not always be using the flash with a known subject to flash distance. Your subjects may not stand still for you to dial it in.

ETTL sends out a small pre flash to judge how bright the flash should be. It can screw up by over flashing a dark subject or under flashing a pale subject turning them both gray. Flash exposure compensation is your tool for preventing that. Once the FEC is set it doesn't matter how near or far the subject is. The flash will expose it how you want as long as it's powerful enough to do so.


Elk in the woods, maybe FEC 0. Black Gorilla, maybe -2. Swan, maybe +2. With a little practice you'll know the FEC and your flashed wildlife shots should be consistent even if you don't know how far away your subject will be when you photograph them.

elv wrote in post #18038764
I just happened to post a guide to the Godox radio flash system yesterday - http://flashhavoc.com/​godox-flash-system-overview/

Godox have the cheapest HSS enabled radio slave flashes ($69) in the TT600, and the XT-32 transmitter for Canon.

The TT600 don't do ETTL, but you don't need that, just the HSS.


They are not bottom of the barrel cheap though, really a great start in a system you can expand into various off camera lighting.

Wow - that's awesome!
Unfortunately, and this is a big downer - B&H is no longer carrying Godox products.
This is problematic for me because I don't have a credit card or debit, and can only pay for items online using my PayPal balance. B&H is great at accepting PayPal for online orders, and I know that Amazon does not accept PayPal at all. Hmmmmm. Maybe I'll try Adorama? If I get confused at Adorama I can just hit Helen up here with a PM!

EDIT: On Adorama's website, I am not able to find either the Godox flash or the Godox transmitter that you suggested. I called Adorama to try to talk with a live person and ask about these products, but after working thru menus and waiting on hold for 8 minutes I finally gave up. Customer service & product availability don't seem to be what they used to be. Cripes! Getting what I need is becoming very tough.

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