First prints on Pro-10 way off compared to Pro-100

Finally set up a Pro-10 that I bought for Christmas. Until now I had been using my Pro-100 and getting results I was happy with.

Anyway, I took the very same photos I was printing on the Pro-100 and when printed on the Pro-10 they were coming out way different. The whites were now sort of gray, the overall print was slightly darker, but worst of all, skin tones are incredibly reddish. It looks like my little girl has a sunburn on the Pro-10 vs normal skin tone when printed on the Pro-100.

On the Pro-100, what I see on my monitor is almost exactly how the photo looks printed. On the 10, I am way off.

What should I start checking for, if anything at all? I cannot believe that I'm going to have to make the stuff on my screen look like crap just to be able to get a decent print on the Pro-10.

Well the first questions you will be asked are:

• Do you have a calibrated screen, and what do you use to calibrate it?
  
  
• What software are you using to edit?
  
  
• Are you softproofing with the correct .icc profile for paper, printer and ink?
  
  
• Are you printing with the correct .icc profile for paper, printer and ink?
  

mikeinctown wrote in post #18058362

Are you softproofing with the correct .icc profile for paper, printer and ink? I have selected the appropriate printer in LR, the correct paper profile from my options as well as gone into the printer setup tab when I select the printer and have selected the appropriate options regarding paper type, size, etc. As far as softproofing, I just go to the print tab in LR and make sure all my paper settings are correct and then click on the print button.

Are you printing with the correct .icc profile for paper, printer and ink? Yes, I believe I am, see above.


Answers to those would be quite helpful. I have noticed that there can be some quite big differences between different printer profiles.

It sounds like you aren't. When you soft proof, you create a virtual copy of the image you want to print that uses the exact same printer/ink/paper profile that you intend to print on to render the image to your (hopefully calibrated) monitor.
You then make adjustments to the virtual image for highlight/shadow clipping, exposure and color casts that may be a result of different printer/ink/paper combinations. This gets done for each printer used for the same image. I'm pretty sure if you do this now, you will see the same differnces you talk about between the 2 printers.

You may be using a paper that's great for dye ink but not so good with pigment ink.

agedbriar wrote in post #18058528
You may be using a paper that's great for dye ink but not so good with pigment ink.

Using the Canon Pro Luster paper as well as the Photo Paper Plus Glossy II.

ThreeHounds wrote in post #18058415
It sounds like you aren't. When you soft proof, you create a virtual copy of the image you want to print that uses the exact same printer/ink/paper profile that you intend to print on to render the image to your (hopefully calibrated) monitor.
You then make adjustments to the virtual image for highlight/shadow clipping, exposure and color casts that may be a result of different printer/ink/paper combinations. This gets done for each printer used for the same image. I'm pretty sure if you do this now, you will see the same differnces you talk about between the 2 printers.

I'll do some research on soft proofing via LR for the Pro 10 and see what I can get.

Had the day off today so I went out and snapped a bunch of photos. Was hazy out but I think I got some shots that I can print and compare. Hopefully I'll figure out what I'm doing wrong quickly so that the frustration level stays low.

It sounds to me as if so far you have been lucky, and your monitor profile/monitor combination have been pretty much the same as for your old printer. So what you see has been what you got, even without soft proofing. The process you need to follow is as Three Hounds described. It is important that you are using the .icc profile for the Pro 100/Actual paper, and not the Pro 10/Actual paper combination. You need different .icc profiles for each combination of printer and paper. This is going to be especially important with the two printers in question, since one uses Dye inks, and the other Pigment.

I'm also an LR user, and I often end up with two or three different Proof VC's, since you need a different one for each paper type/printer combination. I will also make a new one for each paper size, I often print with a small border, and to do that you need a different aspect ratio crop for each paper size, even when the paper ratio remains constant, such as in the A series sizes. Another thing that LR does when you create a "proof" VC is to automatically use the chosen proof .icc profile when printing from the Print module, so it's important to keep everything straight across the soft proof and the output.

alan

BigAl007 wrote in post #18058879
It sounds to me as if so far you have been lucky, and your monitor profile/monitor combination have been pretty much the same as for your old printer. So what you see has been what you got, even without soft proofing. The process you need to follow is as Three Hounds described. It is important that you are using the .icc profile for the Pro 100/Actual paper, and not the Pro 10/Actual paper combination. You need different .icc profiles for each combination of printer and paper. This is going to be especially important with the two printers in question, since one uses Dye inks, and the other Pigment.

I'm also an LR user, and I often end up with two or three different Proof VC's, since you need a different one for each paper type/printer combination. I will also make a new one for each paper size, I often print with a small border, and to do that you need a different aspect ratio crop for each paper size, even when the paper ratio remains constant, such as in the A series sizes. Another thing that LR does when you create a "proof" VC is to automatically use the chosen proof .icc profile when printing from the Print module, so it's important to keep everything straight across the soft proof and the output.

alan

OK I'm really confused now. When I go into the print section on LR you make all the adjustments. When scrolling down on the right you select the printer, print quality, and the ICC profile, margins, etc. I can say with certainty that I am selecting the correct profile for each printer/paper combination. So the photo you see when in the print module is not the "proof"?

This may be what I'm having the issue with, as I am only seeing the photo that shows up on the module, complete with the paper info shown on the upper left side of the screen.

No you have to go to the Develop module, and click the Soft Proof option (I think it's a tick box, but don't have LR in front of me at the moment). This brings up the Soft proofing tools at the top of the right hand tool panel. You need to select the correct .icc profile here, remembering that the same paper has different profiles on different printers. By default I think it starts with sRGB as your profile. If you click in the profile box you can select from a list of profiles, including one selection that allows you to add additional profiles to the list. You will need to find the correct profile to match both the printer and paper combination. For printing I also always use the simulate paper white, although not perfect it is quite good at matching the brightness/contrast of the final print, although you do need to still have the screen brightness set correctly. Once you have chosen the correct profile if you then start to edit the image, to correct for any differences that show up, such as the skin tones in your case, LR will ask if you want to make a Proof copy, accept the proof copy and it will create a VC for you. I usually use a Blue label for Proof VC's to make them easy to find. Once you have the proof copy looking good, then you can take it to the Print module and print it. At this point you should find that the Print module will use the correct .icc profile automatically.

The reason that LR does it this way is that you need to be in the Develop module when Proofing, so that you can make any necessary edits to the proof copy to make the image correctly fit the different available colourspaces. Instead of showing under or over exposure the two warning triangles (although they get different icons) in the corners of the histogram show Gamut warnings. One for the monitor, the other for the printer colourspaces, and the highlighting will combine and show purple if any part of the image is out of gamut for both.

In my normal processing workflow I will usually soft proof, and create a Proof copy for my usual printing choice, for any image that I think might be a good choice for printing. It doesn't normally take long, and I have the thing ready to go if I want it. My usual choice for a print is from a lab, so having images ready to go is useful if I have something I really want printed, as I can then quickly find images that are ready to add to the order, to help offset the postage costs. Much easier to have a couple of dozen low priority images on hand when I want to print something important.

Alan

THANK YOU! I shall give it a try later. For now it appears that the biggest problem is with skin tones, but even the city shots I took last night printed slightly dark this morning. At least the colors with the city shots were dead on from what I could tell, holding the photo up to the screen and comparing.

Just wanted to say thanks. I found the proof selection and boy did the photo change when I selected the pro-10 and correct paper. Made changes and the print I got was exactly how it looked on screen. Still need to get used to which photo is which after creating the proof. The first time it was 2 of 2 then it changed to 1 of 2.

Excellent.
You can rename the proof copy to whatever you like in Library Module, under "Copy Name" field. I rename them the .icc profile name used.

mikeinctown wrote in post #18059912
Still need to get used to which photo is which after creating the proof. The first time it was 2 of 2 then it changed to 1 of 2.

I use the Colour Label to make it obvious. All my RAW files have their colour label set to green automatically during import. If I create a soft proof I set it's colour label to purple so it stands out. In View Options (right click on the image) I also have "Tint grid cells with label colours" selected/50% to make it obvious.

Dan Marchant wrote in post #18060040
I use the Colour Label to make it obvious. All my RAW files have their colour label set to green automatically during import. If I create a soft proof I set it's colour label to purple so it stands out. In View Options (right click on the image) I also have "Tint grid cells with label colours" selected/50% to make it obvious.

This is much like my process, except my unprocessed images are unlabeled, Print copies are blue, and I use purple for RAW images that have been sent off to another program for additional processing. That stops me from accidentally using a RAW where I should be using a .PSD, or some other file type, since when using DualISO for example you have to convert the original CR2 to a DNG. I often find that I filter for master RAW files, so knowing additional processing was necessary is helpful. Sice about 98% of my images stay as RAWs filtering out all but the master files is not a bad idea at times.

I have to say that the concept of VC's is one of my favorite things about LR, I don't think any other image management/processing system has anything nearly close to the versatility that VCs offer.

Alan