Metz and Canon 90 EX compatibility

I have 2 Metz 58 AF-1 flashguns and 1 Metz 48 AF-1 which I use on a Canon 50D.
These all perform perfectly together in optical wireless ETTL mode and I can use either of the 58s as master or slave.

I recently picked up a Canon 90 EX and thought it would be useful to use as the master thereby freeing up one of my Metz 58s.
But, it works about 1 time in every 10, when it doesn't work I still get the initial flash from all units as it works out the exposure but it doesn't trigger the main flash when the shutter is open.

I've tried it with all the Metz guns seperately in close proximity to make sure the sensor is getting the signal correctly but no luck.
I could understand if the systems weren't quite compatible but why does it work that 1 time out of ten, perhaps the 90 EX has a problem.

Has anyone else had experience of the Canon 90 EX or even tried this sort of mixed configuration.

Thanks

Ray

Canon keeps technical details of its products close to the vest, and companies like Metz have to reverse engineer compatibility. In view of the fact that the 90EX is a relatively new product, perhaps Canon has deviated a bit yet maintains compatability with its own products, but it is different enough that Metz flash units are outside of the compatability envelope in certain circumstances.

Yes Wilt you may well have hit upon the right explanation there..

You have worded your explanation so diplomatically that I'm wondering if you work for Metz

I have emailed Metz and asked if there is any known incompatibility, but I won't hold my breath waiting for a reply.

No, I have no connection to Metz other than being a user of its excellent and dependable flash exposure products for over 30 years.

It was more a commentary on Canon's (not-unexpected) lack of technical data sharing combined with its own apparent inept flash design, where they designed the External mode to underexpose photosensor flash exposures by as much as -2EV, when every other flash manufacturer in the world seemed to have met the exposure accuracy 'challenge' of Auto flash decades earlier ! Plus, we have the RF interference 'incompatability' of Pocket Wizards with Canon 580EX flash, which Canon tries to lay blame on PW although the PW has no issues with other brands of flash.

In the past I have speculated about Canon flash issues being due to assigning brand new engineers to flash, not that Canon is inherently inept in that area!

I have just recieved a reply from Metz (actually their UK representatives Intro 2020) which stated:

"Having passed your enquiry to our technician I can report on his findings as follows.

This will not work on the Canon 50D as it does not have a flash master control system built in and therefore will not trigger the other flashes to fire correctly."



I have now written back to state that the Canon 90 EX does have a master control system built in which I can enable and adjust with the in-camera controls of the 50D. Other people are using this combination of 90 EX and 50D to get optical wireless control with Canon flashguns so why doesn't it work with my Metz flashguns.

This is not giving me much faith in their technical department !

You obviously totally confused them with the mention of the brand and model camera...which is not pertinent information to your question!

K.I.S.S. "If I use the Canon 90EX as Master, will my 2 Metz 58 AF-1 flashguns and 1 Metz 48 AF-1 work as slaves. Are there any non-supported features with that combination (Canon 90EX as master, instead of 58AF-1 as master)?"

To continue this saga, I recieved the following reply from Intro 2020:

"The 50D does not have built in flash with remote TTL master, nor does the canon 90EX flash gun and therefore is not compatible to use with the Metz as a master. What you will need to use is a trigger unit with TTL built in. The Metz unit however does have TTL remote TTL built in so can be used as a master. Another possibility would be to update your body to a 60D or above. For more information relating to Canon, please contact them direct."

I replied suggesting that they should read Canon's spec for the 90EX where it specifically states the ability to use it as a master.

In desperation I also emailed Metz in Germany, I received the following reply by return:

"Unfortunately we had to realise that the slave function of the flash units mecablitz 58 AF-1 digital and 48 AF-1 digital for Canon doesn't work correctly if the Canon Speedlite 90EX is used as master on the camera. Therefore we have to modify the firmware of these flash units. We will integrate this modification in the next firmware release of these flash units. However, we can't give a release date for this firmware modification at the moment but we will inform you as soon as this new firmware is available.
The afore-mentioned flash units can be controlled as slaves by the built-in flash unit of the camera if the camera is equipped with this function or by the Canon Speedlite Transmitter ST-E2 for example."

At last a sensible answer !