How much mm for rutting elk?

Silver-Halide wrote in post #18084094
I'm pretty sure a tripod is off the table. I want to run around and not be static.

A solid tripod + gimbal is not static, it's just a stable way to give yourself a big positive edge towards getting a sharp image with a long lens. You can trek with it over your shoulder.

Anyhow, I will defer to other much more experienced big mammal photographers, I suggest you check some of them out, they have valuable advice. I know Tom does a lot of deer & elk and has tons of experience with this.

Either way, have fun and post images of course!

Very best,

Silver-Halide wrote in post #18081716
I'd like to head up to the forests this fall when they're rutting like crazy, bugling and running all over, where there are also patches of meadow between the woods and not sure if my 5dIII would be enough with the say the 100-400mm II, or if I'd need a 7d/7dII or just a cheaper t3i or something for the resolution cropped to the center of the lens?

Silver-Halide wrote in post #18081717
I guess a better question would be: crop or full frame on a 100-400mm?

It depends upon how close you can manage to get to the 'horny' animals!

• 400mm at 100': FF frames 6' x 9' area, APS-C frames 3.7 x 5.6' area
  
• 400mm at 200': FF frames 12' x 18' area, APS-C frames 7.5 x 11.2' area
  
• 400mm at 300': FF frames 18' x 27' area, APS-C frames 11.2 x 16.8' area
  

MalVeauX wrote in post #18084116
Anyhow, I will defer to other much more experienced big mammal photographers, I suggest you check some of them out, they have valuable advice. I know Tom does a lot of deer & elk and has tons of experience with this.

Hey, Martin - thanks for the vote of confidence! Don't know why it took me 4 days to find this thread.......I usually check the "Wildlife Talk" section frequently because it's my very favorite section in this entire forum!

Silver-Halide wrote in post #18084094
I'm pretty sure a tripod is off the table. I want to run around and not be static.

MalVeauX wrote in post #18084116
A solid tripod + gimbal is not static, it's just a stable way to give yourself a big positive edge towards getting a sharp image with a long lens. You can trek with it over your shoulder.

Silver, you are absolutely right about one thing - you do want to be able to run around and move while shooting elk. Their rut is very active and mobile, and you need to be able to not only keep up with them, but you also need to move around a lot so that you can line the elk up with the most desirable backgrounds, or shoot them from the angle that is most aesthetically advantageous.

But Martin is right, too. A tripod doesn't mean that you are stuck in one place, as you can prance about in a mobile fashion while toting a tripod over your shoulder.

But really, what lens (focal length) you use and whether or not you use a tripod are factors which should be viewed as variable. Those things are dependent on the conditions under which you are shooting, the degree to which the elk are habituated, and your artistic vision, with respect to what types of images you are trying to create at any given time.

As for focal length, with Elk that is all over the place.

Some areas, such as Rocky Mountain National Park and the Slippery Ann Viewing Area, have strictly enforced rules about where you can walk, so in these locations it really pays to have a lot of focal length at your disposal. I would look at 600mm on a full frame as being a minimum when shooting these situations.

In other areas you are free to roam about as you please, so long as you don't get so close to the Elk so as to disturb them (25 yards in Yellowstone). In these areas, especially when the Elk are habituated to human proximity, you could actually shoot them with a 24-105mm lens.

Of course, Canon's new 100-400mm zoom is the most versatile lens for Elk. This is due to two primary factors; it's ability to take a 1.4 tele-extender and still produce impeccable image quality and its 4 stop Image Stabilization, which allows you to shoot in low light without a tripod. If you have a 100-400 on a full frame body and carry a 1.6 crop factor body and a 1.4 extender in your pack, then you are able to shoot an equivalent focal length of anywhere from 100mm to 896mm. That is a heck of a lot of range!

I am attaching a couple of sample photos taken at very different focal lengths. The first image was taken with my 24-105 on a full frame, at 82mm. The second image was taken with my big 400 an a 1.4 extender on my 1.6 crop 50D, for an angle of view equivalent to 896mm. I wish I had shot that 2nd image a little wider, as I would have loved to get more of the beautiful vegetation in the frame.....but I was using a prime, and the hurried conditions did not allow me time to take off the extender. There really is a lot of advantage to a zoom when you have to adjust compositions on the fly and you want to shoot one image tight and two seconds later you want to open up to capture the surrounding habitat.

Thanks Tom!

I see a screaming classified ad for the old 400mm f/5.6 prime, but this is not only non-zoom, it lacks IS and IIRC, weather sealing, too.

I already have the small and big 70-200mm, but definitely want to have at least 400mm at my disposal.

Grabbed the old 400mm f/5.6 for $725. Here's my very first exposure with it:

5dIII @ f/5.6, 1/160th, ISO 6,400.

Well, I would say go with the 7D MII, faster frames per second and the autofocus system is awesome. Also, you could add a 1.4X convertor to the 400mm 5.6 and have center point autofocus.

On that note, I would selfishly say that the 7D MI would be fine, and that I have three of them available for sale (two with battery grips, all with RRS L plates.

Yes, 7Dii. Don't expect great results with a 1.4 converter on that lens. I have that exact setup.
Croppabilty of the 7Dii is excellent.

Just for an example; this was shot with the 7DII + 100-400II, @ 200-ish mm and roughly 60ft away from these, 2 LARGE bulls.

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/KRhp​Kf

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/LaQ1​mF

RMNP has a lot of good viewing areas but you will generally want as much reach as possible if going there, with a secondary lens like a 70-300 type if they venture closer. Need to plan your spots by late afternoon and the rangers on the east side will keep you to just off the shoulder of the road, although i do see tourists trying to venture into the woods with their phones. It tends to get a bit crazy in the prime areas on the weekends with bumper to bumper traffic exiting into Estes after sunset.

If it's the height of the rut, you know how to call them and you're well camouflaged, then a 50mm could be enough. One of my employees got an archery elk at a distance of 4 feet. He said it was almost a self defense kind of thing.

moose charge!!!!!!

https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=wHu8KNRZ0bg

Interested in your observations about Rutting Elk. I have no experience of them as we don't have them in the UK.

However I have taken many shots of the Red Deer and Pere David deer at a local park - note (public) Park - where they see people,dogs, kids in prams etc every day. Yet when either of these species are "in the Rut" I have been chased off several times when using short lenses (300-400mm). A friend (using a 1D4 and 100-400) had to dive into thick Rhododendron buses to avoid a Red Stag - it couldn't follow as it's antlers were too big - so he could get away.

These days I stick to 800mm in the Rut - the rest of the time 100-200mm gets the job done.

Different species, different experiences - interesting and informative.