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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Weddings & Other Family Events Talk 
Thread started 30 Jul 2016 (Saturday) 06:10
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Wedding client asked to have all raw images -advice?

 
memoriesoftomorrow
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Dec 27, 2016 03:27 as a reply to  @ post 18224430 |  #46

Nothing unusual about not including albums or prints but charging that much. Fairly common for the top 20% of the market.

People don't feel nickel and dimed at all.

When a tog relies soley on packages that include lots of extras they are doing so to try and create percieved value. This being done because their photography and the experience / level of service struggles to create that percieved value on its own.

Relying entirely on packages including lots of "stuff" over time becomes a race to the bottom. Someone else will always include more "stuff". However, make it about the photography / experience that people are buying and they are buying "you". No one else has "you" for sale.

There is no problem selling albums and prints post wedding.


Peter

  
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evolyllaphotography
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Dec 27, 2016 11:11 |  #47

I'd say no to this and explain nicely that we have copyright to the photos and need to protect how these images are presented.


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NBEast
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Post edited over 2 years ago by NBEast. (4 edits in all)
     
Dec 27, 2016 17:02 |  #48

memoriesoftomorrow wrote in post #18224551 (external link)
People don't feel nickel and dimed at all.

I would, but that's just one opinion.

Does this ring a bell?

It is your wedding and your memories! Both high (printing) and low (online sharing) resolution images are included.

It should, it's from your site here (external link).

I guess I misunderstood your argument. We're on the same page. My apologies. Clearly, your statement implies they can go get the hi-res reprinted on their own.

EDIT: Therefore; why would they pay you 10x the physical cost, presumably to cover "reprint rights" (that they've already purchased). It follows that your "over the top service" should include you proactively offering to have your print house take care of the printing at only slightly above, or at, your cost. Or for that matter; complementary if it's just a few smaller ones. That would put a smile on anyone's face.

Am I missing something?


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memoriesoftomorrow
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Post edited over 2 years ago by memoriesoftomorrow. (2 edits in all)
     
Dec 28, 2016 02:48 as a reply to  @ NBEast's post |  #49

Yes that is from my site... it doesn't help your point at all.

Yes clients get high res files with print rights. But guess what, they also choose to buy prints as do their friends and family through the online gallery, fulfilled through a pro lab.

Likewise the majority of album sales come after the wedding. After the clients have recieved their files.

People don't pay 10x for reprint rights. They already have those rights. They pay for a service which is being provided. They can order high quality prints direct from their gallery with delivery straight to their door.

Whilst you may feel nickel and dimed, others don't. That is a reflection of your value system towards photography and not theirs. You aren't the type of client I or many others attract.


Peter

  
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NBEast
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Post edited over 2 years ago by NBEast. (5 edits in all)
     
Dec 28, 2016 18:35 |  #50

memoriesoftomorrow wrote in post #18225371 (external link)
Yes that is from my site... it doesn't help your point at all.

Yes clients get high res files with print rights. But guess what, they also choose to buy prints as do their friends and family through the online gallery, fulfilled through a pro lab.

Likewise the majority of album sales come after the wedding. After the clients have recieved their files.

People don't pay 10x for reprint rights. They already have those rights. They pay for a service which is being provided. They can order high quality prints direct from their gallery with delivery straight to their door.

Whilst you may feel nickel and dimed, others don't. That is a reflection of your value system towards photography and not theirs. You aren't the type of client I or many others attract.

I guess I didn't express my point well then because I'm on the same page as what you're offering.

To me, offering full res images with full reprint rights *entirely* alleviates the "nickle & dime" effect. You haven't painted them into a corner. If they're rich, maybe they'll bite to avoid the hassle & potential quality issues.

For the rest of us, we can head down to Costco.

I think this thread's drifted from the initial question of "would you provide RAW Images". To me; its just bad customer service to say "no". I'd allow it on an individual photo. Doesn't Lightroom allow you to export RAW type that still has your edits? That way you won't look bad if the original needed a lot of work.


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memoriesoftomorrow
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Dec 28, 2016 23:40 as a reply to  @ NBEast's post |  #51

One doesn't make a long term full time living in this game attracting "costco" clients.


Peter

  
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Dec 29, 2016 00:25 as a reply to  @ NBEast's post |  #52

Don't try and argue with him. It's not worth wasting your time.


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Dec 29, 2016 00:26 as a reply to  @ memoriesoftomorrow's post |  #53

There's more than one way of doing this, you realize that, yes?


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memoriesoftomorrow
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Dec 29, 2016 02:07 as a reply to  @ elrey2375's post |  #54

Given the person with whom I have been speaking has little experience shooting weddings, and certainly not doing it for a full time long term business their knowledge of what works and doesn't is limited to say the least.

There is a reason why so many wedding photographers only ever manage a part time income from the job and don't stay in business more than a few years.


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texkam
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Dec 29, 2016 03:02 |  #55

Wedding client asked to have flour, eggs, sugar too.




  
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umphotography
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Dec 29, 2016 08:43 |  #56

NBEast wrote in post #18224430 (external link)
I'm no authority but let me understand this correctly. You charge $3K minimum (read, $3500 - $7000 range) and you don't include prints or albums?

Don't you usually just sell that in the "package price" so they don't feel nickle-n-dimed?

Respectfully; every photog site I've ever visited offers "wedding packages" - most of which include a set number of enlargements. Album prices are sometimes separate, but aren't you better off selling this stuff up front when the wallet's most likely to open the widest?



All of our pricing is on our site

We charge to go out and capture and we charge for album design services. Most of my work is good to go straight off the camera. In Fact, if you look at my website, 95% of the images displayed are proof files. We do not put up a ton of edited files.

Album design gets clients bigger files and 80 edits for the albums

I tend to not mess with prints as the majority of wedding clients start to feel nickel and dime'd when you try to sell the $50.00 8x10's. We send them direct to our labs where they can buy prints they need.

Last point.....There is NO PROFESSIONAL LABS that sell exclusive to photographers for prints....every single lab in the states sells direct to the general public at the same price point that you can buy it from....So my attitudes is dont fight it. clients know that 8x10's cost $2.75 ea...Im not going to insult their intelligence

I charge what I feel its worth for me to go out and capture the events and create proof files for the clients ( basic editing) and I charge my time to design the albums and to edit the additional files..... so labor only....., no products to mess with. We show and recommend finao and Pictobooks for albums. But make no mistake, there are a ton out there that sell albums direct to clients.

My opinion is that product base business models for the wedding markets are DOA.....every bridal publication on the market has informed the bridal market where to obtain products that photographers sell and that all they need is the digital files to buy them......Which is exactly true......so we charge what we feel we are worth and let the clients buy their own products with the files we provide or we can order them products that we sell.....Totally up to clients which way they choose to go.

Hope this helps.


Mike
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mcluckie
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Post edited over 2 years ago by mcluckie.
     
Dec 29, 2016 10:34 |  #57

hidroela wrote in post #18081753 (external link)
I would put a price per raw file that would make then to reconsider their request.

They should be lucky to get JPGs. Don't give your negs away.

On the other hand, unless you want them to come back to you for reprints, who cares? They have no value to you. Photoguys doing film would charge 3X the fee for the shoot to give away the negs. Wedding guys don't charge much for time it seems (making money from prints and books), so I have no idea how that might work.


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nathancarter
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Dec 29, 2016 12:15 |  #58

memoriesoftomorrow wrote in post #18226187 (external link)
One doesn't make a long term full time living in this game attracting "costco" clients.


I think this is the key takeaway here. It's a different client base.


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EOS-Mike
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Dec 29, 2016 12:22 |  #59

As the years have gone by I left shooting professionally. Got burned out. But looking back, I wouldn't mind selling the raw files for the jobs I did. I usually end up deleting their files a year later anyway. I've tossed out tens of thousands of raw files because I'm not interested in keeping them. If I ever do shots again for pay I'll give the raw files if it's negotiated ahead of time. I guess it depends on the job.

I'd still be selective, however. After all, if I were a chef and knew I'd be having a visitor to the kitchen, I'd probably clean up an it more than usual. So if the customer wanted raw files I'd tell them that I'd be throwing away the crappy shots.

If I were a famous photographer I'd never give out raw files. That could damage your reputation when people see crap images.


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Dec 31, 2016 19:34 |  #60

98kellrs wrote in post #18219088 (external link)
I agree with Peter's view, I asked for a couple of RAW files from my own wedding as I wanted to get them printed quite large. Having the raw file gives much more flexibility and I'm happy to spend 3-4 hours perfecting those special photographs that were previously merely batch-edited in LR with some slight tweaks in PS.

I do not understand the "charge more" mentality, it costs literally nothing to allow your client the freedom they desire, and the time saved can be then utilised getting ahead on other paid work.

If you are a photographer, then the point of your reply may not carry much convincing weight regarding the OP's question.
Are you a photographer? Do you know how to adjust in Lightroom, Photoshop, ?

If the answer is yes, then you, like many of us, are not in the same league or shoes as the average wedding couple. A "couple" photos handed over to you, is incomparable to an unspecified number or RAW files given to a married couple.

Or anyone else.

After a few years of providing some RAW or unadjusted JPGs to various people for portraits and seeing the shots occassionally surface poorly tweaked or "as is" with my name connected as a "credit", I plan to avoid giving RAW whenever possible.


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Wedding client asked to have all raw images -advice?
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