New user of a heavier lens

I just recently acquired a 70-200 F2.8L IS II which is much heavier than any other lens I've had.

Using on a tripod or monopod is obviously best. But in a situation when I'm not using one of those, what is the best way to hand hold a lens like this? Should my hand face away from me or towards me? Either way, the collar seems to get in the way - do I just loosen and rotate it? Take it all the way off? I assume some of this is personal preference, but is one way ergonomically better than another? Also, I seem to be putting my fingers on the focusing ring - I think due to the lens collar - so I'm pretty sure I'm not doing something right.

I spent a couple hours shooting early yesterday morning. I did not do much chimping - which is unusual for me. I was hand holding this lens and shooting in Av mode. I was disappointed when I got home, downloaded the files, and saw that many of them were out of focus due to a combination of the hand held lens and shutter speed. I did a focus test and that's clearly not the issue so it appears to be operator error. The general suggestion is to keep the shutter speed at or above the focal length for hand held - so at the high range of 200mm on the lens, I shouldn't go below 1/200 shutter speed. How much does this IS help with this - 1/3 stop? 2/3 stops?

Thanks for the help.

I just rotate the collar so the foot is up and out of the way. As far as handholding, it sounds like you're holding too far forward on that lens; the balance point is back closer to the zoom ring; I basically hold it so that the section w/ the control switches is cradled between by thumb and index finger. That way the lens balances in the hand easier, the switches and the zoom ring are easily operable by the thumb and hand is still close *enough* to slide up to adjust focus but without inadvertently changing focus.

Generally, yes, try to keep 1/200 or better but the IS on the MkII is quite good and should easily let you get down to 1/25 or so, with proper technique. When handholding, keep your elbows tucked in to your body, feet roughly shoulder-width apart. Your camera arm's elbow firmly against your rib cage and your lens arm's elbow tucked against your other side, more along your centerline; your lens hand should be taking most of the weight of the unit.

I tend to hold my 100-400 like a shotgun, left hand under the barrel with elbow almost pointing down to the ground. It helps to pull your left arm close to your body for support.

I don't follow rules or guidelines when it comes to shutter speed, but generally I'm up around 1/1600 unless I'm panning and want to blur background.

sued5320 wrote in post #18083116
I just recently acquired a 70-200 F2.8L IS II which is much heavier than any other lens I've had.

Using on a tripod or monopod is obviously best. But in a situation when I'm not using one of those, what is the best way to hand hold a lens like this? Should my hand face away from me or towards me? Either way, the collar seems to get in the way - do I just loosen and rotate it? Take it all the way off? I assume some of this is personal preference, but is one way ergonomically better than another? Also, I seem to be putting my fingers on the focusing ring - I think due to the lens collar - so I'm pretty sure I'm not doing something right.

I spent a couple hours shooting early yesterday morning. I did not do much chimping - which is unusual for me. I was hand holding this lens and shooting in Av mode. I was disappointed when I got home, downloaded the files, and saw that many of them were out of focus due to a combination of the hand held lens and shutter speed. I did a focus test and that's clearly not the issue so it appears to be operator error. The general suggestion is to keep the shutter speed at or above the focal length for hand held - so at the high range of 200mm on the lens, I shouldn't go below 1/200 shutter speed. How much does this IS help with this - 1/3 stop? 2/3 stops?

Thanks for the help.

Interesting.

Was this on an XSi? If you're using an APS-C, it does make a difference, and you'd want something closer to 1/300~1/400s for hand held at 200mm on that sensor.

IS definitely helps, and the 4 stops of stabilization it provides is pretty good. You should be able to shoot at 1/100s or even as low as 1/50s honestly with good bracing/breathing technique with the IS on. So a 4 stop image stabilization, should be able to take you from 1/320s to 1/160s (1 stop) -> 1/80s (2nd stop) -> 1/40s (3rd stop) -> 1/20s (4th stop) in theory. Granted, that's not that simple. 1/20s with 200mm on APS-C even with 4 stop image stabilization isn't a no brainer, it's hard to do without good bracing/breathing technique, but it can happen. Granted, you have to consider that it's likely too slow even for general purpose as things move, you probably want to be closer to 1/100s just to stop subject motion, regardless. So really 2 stops of IS should help you considerably.

You can try to find a sweet spot for yourself. Setup a target with contrasty lines and give yourself a specific distance that is common for you and shoot at the lowest shutter speeds you can, to see how tolerant your IS will be of your movement and the angle of view at 200mm on APS-C. You may find it to be a higher value. With that in mind, you can then try to adjust ISO to always keep that lower shutter speed value in mind when shooting since it flashes in your view finder all the time while you meter and you can keep an eye out for going too slow for that focal length for your technique/methods.

I use even longer lenses with APS-C and I can get down as low as 1/20s with image stabilization and a monopod, with a 600mm lens. But it takes having that monopod, 4 stop IS and good breathing/bracing to get that slow. And it's not even a good idea half the time because the subjects move commonly, and you will blur at that speed with subject movement even slightly swaying.

A monopod is a great tool even for walk around. They folk down to basically a foot or so, and add so much stability especially for an all day afair. Definitely look into one, it helps! But, image stabilization still should help.

The angle of view provided by a 200mm focal length on an APS-C sensor is a lot more like a 320mm lens would be on a full frame sensor, so if you think about it like that, you will need a faster shutter in general for hand holding stationary stuff. If you're very shaky, uneasy or sway a lot, the IS will even have a hard time. You could always push your ISO up a touch to compensate. ISO 400, ISO 800, etc. Even on the XSi, ISO 800 is fine if you expose well.

+++++++++++

Here's some examples of how slow of a shutter you could tolerant with a combination of IS and a monopod with a long lens (300mm & 600mm even, full frame & APS-C) and even a wide angle lens on full frame for very, very slow shutter possibilities :

1/40s via IS & a monopod, 500mm on a full frame:

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/JexM​pC

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/FLVs​nh

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/FgLy​GX

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/Kexq​so

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/Key8​3m

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/pWB5​h9

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/G62H​1f

Practice, schmatice. I've been doing this for 40 years. I still need 1/400 with a 200mm lens on full frame. 200mm on apsc w/o IS! Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha. VFF! Some of us are just shakier than others. Do what works for YOU.

MalVeauX wrote in post #18083165
Interesting.

Was this on an XSi? If you're using an APS-C, it does make a difference, and you'd want something closer to 1/300~1/400s for hand held at 200mm on that sensor.

IS definitely helps, and the 4 stops of stabilization it provides is pretty good. You should be able to shoot at 1/100s or even as low as 1/50s honestly with good bracing/breathing technique with the IS on. So a 4 stop image stabilization, should be able to take you from 1/320s to 1/160s (1 stop) -> 1/80s (2nd stop) -> 1/40s (3rd stop) -> 1/20s (4th stop) in theory. Granted, that's not that simple. 1/20s with 200mm on APS-C even with 4 stop image stabilization isn't a no brainer, it's hard to do without good bracing/breathing technique, but it can happen. Granted, you have to consider that it's likely too slow even for general purpose as things move, you probably want to be closer to 1/100s just to stop subject motion, regardless. So really 2 stops of IS should help you considerably.

You can try to find a sweet spot for yourself. Setup a target with contrasty lines and give yourself a specific distance that is common for you and shoot at the lowest shutter speeds you can, to see how tolerant your IS will be of your movement and the angle of view at 200mm on APS-C. You may find it to be a higher value. With that in mind, you can then try to adjust ISO to always keep that lower shutter speed value in mind when shooting since it flashes in your view finder all the time while you meter and you can keep an eye out for going too slow for that focal length for your technique/methods.

I use even longer lenses with APS-C and I can get down as low as 1/20s with image stabilization and a monopod, with a 600mm lens. But it takes having that monopod, 4 stop IS and good breathing/bracing to get that slow. And it's not even a good idea half the time because the subjects move commonly, and you will blur at that speed with subject movement even slightly swaying.

A monopod is a great tool even for walk around. They folk down to basically a foot or so, and add so much stability especially for an all day afair. Definitely look into one, it helps! But, image stabilization still should help.

The angle of view provided by a 200mm focal length on an APS-C sensor is a lot more like a 320mm lens would be on a full frame sensor, so if you think about it like that, you will need a faster shutter in general for hand holding stationary stuff. If you're very shaky, uneasy or sway a lot, the IS will even have a hard time. You could always push your ISO up a touch to compensate. ISO 400, ISO 800, etc. Even on the XSi, ISO 800 is fine if you expose well.


My personal best hand holding has been with a 35 F2 IS (4 stops of IS) on full frame. I was able to get 2.5 seconds handheld with good bracing and breathing, and my best was 4 seconds hand held. I did it just to stress the system and stress my technique.

You really just have to practice.

There are different techniques for bracing a camera + lens. Practice different ways to hold the setup. Your arms are often why you shake, tuck it in move, angle your elbows more, and how you breathe matters too, I generally do a very slow exhale, for a long time, as I squeeze off a slow shutter shot, just like with a sniper rifle.

Monopods help tons!

Very helpful and comprehensive!

Yes, I am shooting with an XSi so it's not full frame and it limits the ISO range. I try to keep it at 400 or less. A new body with better ISO just isn't in the budget at the moment after buying this lens.

Lesson learned that I need to take a little more time taking shots with this lens. The odd thing is that I don't see the lens movement in this one like I did with a low-end 50-250mm.

I will try to remember and practice the recommendations on putting my hand further back on the lens, keeping my elbows in, and breathing. (I was thinking "you mean like snipers in the movies?" as I was reading the breathing suggestions.) I might have to do a little weightlifting while I'm at it.

Thanks for all the suggestions MalVeauX, Larry & Eric.

sued5320 wrote in post #18083116
...Should my hand face away from me or towards me? ...

Not sure what you mean by that.


Personally I use my left hand as an inverted tripod; ie, I rest the tripod collar on my thumb and then the end of the lens barrel on my fingers.

john crossley wrote in post #18083302
Not sure what you mean by that.

Personally I use my left hand as an inverted tripod; ie, I rest the tripod collar on my thumb and then the end of the lens barrel on my fingers.

I think the question is whether hand position should be with the on the left side of the barrel/fingers facing right or vice versa. A lot of people I see with zoom lenses start out doing the latter, but that removes both stability and your ability to use your fingers to activate controls while shooting.

Snydremark wrote in post #18083558
I think the question is whether hand position should be with the on the left side of the barrel/fingers facing right or vice versa. A lot of people I see with zoom lenses start out doing the latter, but that removes both stability and your ability to use your fingers to activate controls while shooting.

I don't understand that either.

john crossley wrote in post #18083564
I don't understand that either.

Quick 'n dirty examples:

I think the OP is asking about the handle of the mounting ring, not the human hand.

Lbsimon wrote in post #18083600
I think the OP is asking about the handle of the mounting ring, not the human hand.

"Should my hand face away from me or towards me?..."

If I start counting how many times I typed something different from what I meant, I will stop posting altogether.

Snydremark wrote in post #18083590
Quick 'n dirty examples:

Hosted photo: posted by Snydremark in
./showthread.php?p=180​83590&i=i18560546
forum: Canon Lenses

Hosted photo: posted by Snydremark in
./showthread.php?p=180​83590&i=i201122265
forum: Canon Lenses

Yup - that was my question. Although I'm still not sure which way is recommended. (And the 70-200 has the controls between the focus and zoom rings - not like the 100-400 pictured here.) Right now either way gets uncomfortable after a while. I'd prefer to learn the better way so I don't have to unlearn the wrong way.

sued5320 wrote in post #18083642
Yup - that was my question. Although I'm still not sure which way is recommended. (And the 70-200 has the controls between the focus and zoom rings - not like the 100-400 pictured here.) Right now either way gets uncomfortable after a while. I'd prefer to learn the better way so I don't have to unlearn the wrong way.

I, personally, use the first one since it situates the thumb on the side of the barrel to access the switches; plus, it affords the use of the index finger to contol the zoom or focus rings without having to move one's entire hand and destabilize your stance. The images apply to the 70-200, which I own as well, but with the hand held *slightly* more forward on the barrel.