Av mode and ettl flash

When using manual and TV, I can keep my shutter speeds where I'd like them and either set I so or let the float. In av mode, since shutter speed is the unknown, I am see I g low shutter speeds indoors. Is the only way to combat this to raise I so with a flash? Am I missing something? Manual does just.what I want it to do, but av would be nice for those moments in a pinch.

You can lock the SS to between 1/60-Max Sync, or to just Max Sync via custom function. I find that neither of these two options help very much. Limiting the SS to a minimum of 1/60 doesn't add much ambient light to the exposure and limiting to Max Sync is just like Manual with Max Sync chosen as the SS. I just use Manual.

I use Manual mode with flash so I can control the shutter speed. My 'flash sync in Av mode' is always locked to max sync speed. Setting it to 1/60 - 1/max is a recipe for disaster.

Yeah. That's what I ve been doing. If thought there would be maybe a good solid workaround. Manual works just fine. Thanks.

I use Av or manual outdoors but always manual indoors.

The solution depends upon the capabilities of your camera model in use.

• The earlier Canons offered nothing in the way of controlling the range of shutter speeds allowed in Av mode with flash....using M in lieu of Av is the only recourse.
  
• The later Canons offer the user some degree of control over the range of shutter speeds allowed in Av mode with flash.
  

The whole point of using Av with E-TTL flash is to combine ambient and flash exposure. Which requires long time in low ambient light.
If that's not what you want, then Av and E-TTL isn't the combination you are looking for.

apersson850 wrote in post #18103333
The whole point of using Av with E-TTL flash is to combine ambient and flash exposure. Which requires long time in low ambient light.
If that's not what you want, then Av and E-TTL isn't the combination you are looking for.

I think this is backwards. The whole point of Av + ETTL is to leave the shooter out of the decision. If you want whatever the CAMERA decides to do, shoot Av + ETTL. If YOU want to combine ambient and flash exposures, use manual exposure and manual flash.

I find that ac with flash the shutter speeds are terribly low, unless.setting a custom function.

Av with ETTL works if you also manually set the ISO. But then all that you're not adjusting is the shutter speed. And that's the setting that I NEED to control with flash to establish a good ambient/flash ratio. So I shoot manual instead.

Frodge wrote in post #18103482
I find that ac with flash the shutter speeds are terribly low, unless.setting a custom function.

The trick to Av with ETTL is simply this fundamental Rule of Thumb...

Always WATCH what the camera wants to set, when you have some Automatic parameter ...with or without flash!!!

1. You shoot outdoors and set f/11 with ISO 200 in bright sun, your ISO 200 setting wants 1/400 f/11 combo in the bright sun.
   But when the sun hides behind a big cloud, your f/11 aperture setting suddenly makes the camera want 1/50, which is not fast enough to shoot your running soccer playing son without blur...so you get a blurry shot of your son chasing the ball if you do not pay attention to what the camera wants to use in response to your setting
   
2. You shoot indoors and set f/5.6 with ISO 200. With flash turned Off your shutter speed shows camera will choose 1/3 second...or with flash turned ON, your shutter speed shows the camera will STILL CHOOSE 1/3 * (it may adjust it a bit due to Canon NEVEC or AFR behavior)...but it still will be slow because the ambient light is low and Av + flash simply tries for a BALANCE of the two light sources, ambient and flash. So you get a shakey picture...if you do not pay attention to what the camera wants to use in response to your setting
   

Bassat wrote in post #18103429
I think this is backwards. The whole point of Av + ETTL is to leave the shooter out of the decision. If you want whatever the CAMERA decides to do, shoot Av + ETTL. If YOU want to combine ambient and flash exposures, use manual exposure and manual flash.

I have control in Av. I use EC to decide how I want my ambient to look. I'll admit I have more control in manual but it's not like I'm a slave to Av. I can get great exposures in both modes, when outdoors.

Frodge wrote in post #18100994
Yeah. That's what I ve been doing. If thought there would be maybe a good solid workaround. Manual works just fine. Thanks.

Your original question is about using Av mode indoors.

You do not need to use a flash. If Manual mode works fine indoors, then so should Av mode. If you find the shuuter speed is too slow, just open up the aperture to match what you were using in Manual mode.

There is no magic here. The correct exposure will be the same no matter what mode is used.

Using flash is a different story.

msowsun wrote in post #18103720
Your original question is about using Av mode indoors.

You do not need to use a flash. If Manual mode works fine indoors, then so should Av mode. If you find the shuuter speed is too slow, just open up the aperture to match what you were using in Manual mode.

There is no magic here. The correct exposure will be the same no matter what mode is used.

Using flash is a different story.

But we are taking about using flash in Av mode.

And I think the problem is that people also leave ISO set to auto, meaning 400 when the flash is attached. We should be manually setting ISO in these scenarios. Or Canon should update their ETTL algorithm.

frugivore wrote in post #18103844
But we are taking about using flash in Av mode.

And I think the problem is that people also leave ISO set to auto, meaning 400 when the flash is attached. We should be manually setting ISO in these scenarios. Or Canon should update their ETTL algorithm.

Those folks who use M are saying, "I do care about shutter speed in addition to aperture, but I don't care about ISO" when Auto ISO is set.

Those folks, who use automated shutter speed and ISO, inherently have declared, "I do not care what shutter speed nor ISO value is used by the camera" if they fail to monitor what combination is suggested by the automation.
Yet, somewhat schizophrenically they DO end up caring about the shutter speed, when it goes too low. Canon added the '...within reason' controls to later models of cameras, after nearly a decade of gripes about Av with flash and sometimes absurdly long shutter times (1 second or more, I had sometimes encountered before settling on M with flash)