Canon 5D Mark IV -- Time to Discuss!

Talley wrote in post #18130227
NO NO NO NO.

I refuse to buy a camera that has no AA filter unless its something of a fuji type. You know how sucky it is to get aliasing in your photos... so hard to correct. I have ZERO issues with the level of detail the 5D4 offers.

How many people complained about the 5Dsr/A7r/D810 about moire in photography? Nobody ever (may be exaggerating a bit). Shot without AA filter for years already...

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18130313
You are insightful!

It makes up what feels like at least 95% of the senseless disagreement we see on forums like this. If sentences begin or end with, "for my needs", there's really nothing to argue.

Too true.

Silly blanket statements or wild extrapolations of comments in to crazy assumptions seem to get in the way of things all too often.

It's frustrating. I feel like I remember a time when it happened less often, although that was 12ish or more years ago when I spent way too much time on photo.net

sploo wrote in post #18130319
Those three comments sum the issue up perfectly; more MP == less chance of moire issues. No AA filter is useful for detail, and doesn't seem to bite some shooters at all, but for others it is an issue.

As far as I recall, Nikon has started leaving out the AA filter in more cameras (some high-ish MP crop bodies I think) so they must be sufficiently confident that it's highly unlikely to bite most shooters. But, a 21MP Nikon crop is only the pixel density of a 47MP full frame (i.e. ballpark the 5DS/5DSR), so Canon obviously felt that still wasn't enough density to avoid problems.

VIDEO shooters..... considering canon pretty much abandoned those guys, sure, they can take off the AA now.

Charlie wrote in post #18130344
VIDEO shooters..... considering canon pretty much abandoned those guys, sure, they can take off the AA now.

If you're pixel binning (to get a [lower] video resolution from a higher res sensor) then it could make sense to have a strong AA filter in order to minimise video moire.

With enough processing power (and ability to dissipate heat) you could do a proper sub-sampling technique and avoid moire on reduced sized frames (so a lack of AA filter wouldn't be a problem).

I guess Canon could have put an insanely aggressive filter on the 5D4, and binned pixels for 4K video from the whole frame. Obviously stills would have only had an apparent resolution of about 4K (due to the AA filter softening)

OK my 256GB Sandisk UHS-1 Extreme PRO SD card arrived and 4K works fine AS mentioned by a few others.... recorded 5 minutes worth of 4K video with only that card in the camera no issues. This is the card I bought: https://www.amazon.com …UYAY?_encoding=​UTF8&psc=1

Also I tested the buffer

SD only Raw = 30 images
lexar 1066x CF only = 35 images
SD & CF RAW to both cards = 30 images
SD & CF Raw+JPG to both cards = 19 images

This truly is the fastest SD card available for a really good reasonable price. Whats also amazing is seeing 5592 RAW images available on the top LCD... This is a big card lol.

Test was set to 1/8000, ISO 100 F4 and manual focus on the lens. All internal processing was disabled (NR, lens optimizer, etc) Obviously real world results can vary but this is a controlled test.

The 5D4 buffer CAN be beat by both CF slot AND the SD slot. Buy the right SD card!

Charlie wrote in post #18130341
How many people complained about the 5Dsr/A7r/D810 about moire in photography? Nobody ever (may be exaggerating a bit). Shot without AA filter for years already...

Add in the 800e. Been shooting with one for several years and never have had an issue.

Talley wrote in post #18130361
OK my 256GB Sandisk UHS-1 Extreme PRO SD card arrived and 4K works fine AS mentioned by a few others.... recorded 5 minutes worth of 4K video with only that card in the camera no issues. This is the card I bought: https://www.amazon.com …UYAY?_encoding=​UTF8&psc=1

Also I tested the buffer

SD only Raw = 30 images
lexar 1066x CF only = 35 images
SD & CF RAW to both cards = 30 images
SD & CF Raw+JPG to both cards = 19 images

This truly is the fastest SD card available for a really good reasonable price. Whats also amazing is seeing 5592 RAW images available on the top LCD... This is a big card lol.

Test was set to 1/8000, ISO 100 F4 and manual focus on the lens. All internal processing was disabled (NR, lens optimizer, etc) Obviously real world results can vary but this is a controlled test.

The 5D4 buffer CAN be beat by both CF slot AND the SD slot. Buy the right SD card!

So... what happens if you write RAW to the CF and JPEG to the SD?

BTW Being a pedant (again, yea, sorry) I'd say the buffer can be extended, rather than beat.

35 images at 7fps is about 5 seconds of shooting. If the CF card can be written at 100MB/s then in that time something around 500MB could have been written. If a 5D4 raw file averages around 35MB then that's ~14 shots written to the card in that time. I.e. it's that battle between the buffer size (internal camera RAM) vs the fps vs the rate the buffer can be drained to the flash memory card(s). The faster the card, the more the internal buffer is effectively extended (because it's being drained faster, so becomes full at a later point).

sploo wrote in post #18130380
So... what happens if you write RAW to the CF and JPEG to the SD?

BTW Being a pedant (again, yea, sorry) I'd say the buffer can be extended, rather than beat.

35 images at 7fps is about 5 seconds of shooting. If the CF card can be written at 100MB/s then in that time something around 500MB could have been written. If a 5D4 raw file averages around 35MB then that's ~14 shots written to the card in that time. I.e. it's that battle between the buffer size (internal camera RAM) vs the fps vs the rate the buffer can be drained to the flash memory card(s). The faster the card, the more the internal buffer is effectively extended (because it's being drained faster, so becomes full at a later point).

Raw to CF and JPG to SD = 35 frames.

and that completes wasted shutters on my camera lol. Seriously there is no reason why you can't just to RAW to both cards and have 30 images and if you want that max 35 then RAW to CF and JPG to SD.

I'll stick to Raw to CF and JPG to SD to maximize my speed... get the most out of it and the 4K works great on SD where my larger card is.

umm i dunno what happened to my camera but i can no longer focus in live view mode by touching the area on the screen to fcous on? is there a setting that i may have accidently disabled touch AF on live view?

I tried it with both my sigma 35mm art lens and my 24-7f2.8 mk2 canon lens.

Charlie wrote in post #18130330
I consider this as dedicated shooting. If I'm doing dedicated shooting, sure, weight isnt a huge issue, but if you're just strolling with your kids, I would consider that as incidental shooting, and weight can matter. My wife thinks the EOS-M is too big

When it comes to dedicated shooting, I have a fairly high threshold for weight, but if I'm carrying the baby around, or shopping bags? last thing I want is a lot more weight.

With 2 young children myself I've been agonising for 18 months or so about an upgrade. Weight is paramount to me for exactly the reasons you stated above. Sony A7x/Fuji XT1/Nikon DF have all been in my crosshairs at some point. XT2 and now an M5 could be a factor, time will tell upon release.
One thing I found strange in this thread is people stating the extra MP of the 5D4 clearly shows, but hardly any of them upgraded to an A7R2 despite being able to use their existing lens selection ? ? ? For me, the price of this body in the UK, as an amateur shooter will never allow me to purchase it. Maybe a 6D2/24-70F4 kit could be a possibility now they can significantly improve it without cannibalizing 5D sales.

Heads-up 5DIV and Sigma Art owners. Or at least 35mm 1.4 ART owners.

Don't freak out if your default image looks like the first one here. This is what happens with the Peripheral Illumination Correction ON with the aforementioned Sigma lens.

The second image shows the Per. Correction OFF.

It did freak me out at first. Funny that even the live view showed it before taking the image. My first guess was correct, I turned it off and it's gone. I don't use the corrections anyway, they don't do anything in RAW and Adobe ACR (whenever there is support that is.)

(Please excuse the quality and subject of these photos, jpegs with Auto Tone applied in PS.)

Just some more messing around and decided to use the 50 Art in live view and WOW.... Shooting at 1.4 and EVERYTHING I pointed it at was 100% perfect focus. Crazy. As dumb as it may look I may find myself using live view for alot of photos on this camera. Literally took some 50 shots at 1.4 and every single one is spot on... and the facial recognition is spot on.

Talley wrote in post #18130423
Just some more messing around and decided to use the 50 Art in live view and WOW.... Shooting at 1.4 and EVERYTHING I pointed it at was 100% perfect focus. Crazy. As dumb as it may look I may find myself using live view for alot of photos on this camera. Literally took some 50 shots at 1.4 and every single one is spot on... and the facial recognition is spot on.

Cool!

Did you by chance have the weird phenomenon I posted earlier? Is your Peripheral Correction ON?

gabebalazs wrote in post #18130424
Cool!

Did you by chance have the weird phenomenon I posted earlier? Is your Peripheral Correction ON?

No I already knew that. The first thing I do when I get a new camera is turn off all those things. I shoot raw. The video... well I suppose it could work for video.

cutwater wrote in post #18130310
I wish the AA filter could be controlled - turned on and off - via the firmware.....or at least a user removable filter. Then you'd have the best of both worlds.

Or Adobe needs to get busy and add an anti-moire slider and brush to LightRoom.