Canon 5D Mark IV -- Time to Discuss!

gjl711 wrote in post #18136597
I still think Canon is missing a potential market. It would be great if Canon offered three levels of functionality at 3 price points in a rebel sized camera, a 7D sized camera and a 1D sized camera. I would buy in a minute a 1D feature set camera in a rebel form factor.

I do wonder though how full the 1D body is with electronics. Would it be possible to produce a rebel sized body with 1D power? It'd certainly be heavier than other rebels due to the construction required to match the build and weather sealing.

umphotography wrote in post #18136601
Yeah I get that as well/ But most if these guys are gonna toss grips on these 5D4s'.

Yea, since trying a grip on the 5D3 I'm hooked. I only got it for portrait shooting, but liked the feel so much it stays on all the time - apart from when I'm travelling and want to reduce the size and weight.

fotoi wrote in post #18136612
Just to be clear, shooting video will process faster on a fast CF card than on a fast SD card, is that correct?

What do you mean by process? If you mean the camera writing video to the card then as long as the SD card is good enough there will be no difference.

Getting the files off the card using a card reader will likely be faster from CF - unless you happened to be using a UHS-II card reader, and a UHS-II SD card (that provided a good UHS-I speed in the 5D4 - but they seem to be rare).

planet5D wrote in post #18136614
Do you have questions for Canon about the Canon EOS 5D Mark IV? I may be able to do an on camera interview with Canon reps and am gathering questions. I am basing most of my questions on the **** that has gone on about how bad the Canon EOS 5D Mark IV is but was wondering if y’all have questions.

I’m compiling the questions here: https://www.evernote.c​om …VO4pzK0TksKBLhy​2NjI0Fmywk so you can see what I have already

My biggest bugbear is the BG-E20 grip. How on earth did they end up using a completely different button on the grip for the new control (the one by the joystick). It's not only a physically different moulding (smooth with no texture) it's also got a completely different (and very spongy) feel. Button layout is sufficiently different in placement that it feels very odd going from a landscape to a portrait hold, and finally the grip (in portrait position) is thinner than the one on the body - such that I find my fingertips hit the main body before I've got full hold of the grip.

All tolerable with a cheap third party knock-off grip, but totally unacceptable with an (expensive) OEM addition. It's like it was designed by a different team, or perhaps to match an earlier revision of the camera during development.

I'd love to know if Canon could provide some rationale for that car crash.

Jared5 wrote in post #18136615
Did you have a custom menu setting to make the card write changes quickly? I find it's faster to pull the SD card when I find out I'll be shooting rapidly.

Also, it's too bad that video can't be recorded to both cards. Why do still photos need redundancy, but video does not?

I didn't have a custom menu setting, but it probably wouldn't be a bad idea. I usually knew when I was going to do such a shoot. Perhaps it's something that might be recorded with the C1/C2/C3 modes, so you could have an "AI Servo + high speed shooting + fast shutter + RAW to CF only" custom mode for those "Oh s**t, something's happening now" moments.

Jared5 wrote in post #18136617
ISO 50 could be handy for video as well. Kinda like using an ND filter. I wish the 7D Mk2 had ISO 50.

AFAIU It's not a real ISO 50 (more DR), so it's probably better to use an ND filter.

Mookalafalas wrote in post #18136659
Oh, you guys make trouble for the rest of us. I originally had no plans to get this, but 189 pages of thread can wear down a lot of cool judgment...

Just took my 5D3 in to the shop to sell. 96K clicks. Supposedly I can get a IV next week.
My justification is this: selling the 5D3 will cover 1/3 of the price, and in 4 more years I can sell the IV for 1/3 what I paid for it, so I am getting the camera for basically 1/3 of the list price, what a bargain!

Love your logic. I think mine was similar!

gossamer88 wrote in post #18136763
Right. I did forget that! Good to know they (SD/CF) are on equal footing, except for the buffer...correct?

The buffer is the buffer (it's the camera's internal memory), and I'd assume it was agnostic as to which cards are being used.

The issue is how quickly you can drain the buffer to the cards - if the card (or card interface) is slow then you can't free up space in the internal buffer for more new shots. Essentially then you get full frame rate up until the point the buffer is full, and then you can only shoot as fast as the camera can clear the buffer to the cards. Think of it like a bucket with a tap - once the bucket is full you can only pour water into the bucket as quickly as the tap can drain it out.

You'll get a few more shots than the size of the internal buffer (which Canon doesn't actually advertise), as by the time the buffer is full the first few shots should have been written out to the card(s).

For smaller files (e.g. JPEG only) the buffer doesn't fill as quickly (7fps at JPEG size is less data than 7fps at RAW or RAW+JPEG size) so the cards can keep draining the buffer as fast as the camera can fill it - so you can shoot at full fps until the cards fill.

At the high end, something like a 450MB/s CFast card could obviously sustain a much higher data rate. If we assume 5D4 files average about 40MB, then in theory it could write 450/40=~11 frames per second. I.e. you'd be able to shoot at 7fps until the card fills, regardless of the camera's internal buffer size (though obviously there would need to be some buffer for processing frames before writing). I've not see tests of how quickly the 5D4 can actually write to a CF card, but I've seen ~100MB/s in earlier cameras - so clearly well under what would be required to shoot 5D4 RAW files at 7fps.

Just sitting here... Twiddling my thumbs... Still waiting for the ability to open and edit raw files in Photoshop CS6. lol. Might end up having to abandon my stand alone photoshop, get a creative cloud account, and give away my money monthly for the photography package then learn how to use Lightroom for this thing!

planet5D wrote in post #18136614
Do you have questions for Canon about the Canon EOS 5D Mark IV? I may be able to do an on camera interview with Canon reps and am gathering questions. I am basing most of my questions on the **** that has gone on about how bad the Canon EOS 5D Mark IV is but was wondering if y’all have questions.

I’m compiling the questions here: https://www.evernote.c​om …VO4pzK0TksKBLhy​2NjI0Fmywk so you can see what I have already

On your current list of questions: I've heard that the reason for no clean 4K out via HDMI was that the camera is using a chip not capable of it (because they didn't have a suitable part). Seems a weak excuse, but my experience of working with Japanese design teams is that they're very conservative. That's good for reliability, but it means they'll sometimes use old/dated parts because it's qualified and known.

No 60fps 4K? See "why no CFast"

Lower quality full frame 4K? They could line skip every third line in three and end up with a crop factor of about 1.1 (e.g. take 6144 pixels width out of the 6720, and throw away every third column to get 4096 pixels width; 6720/6144~=1.1). But, even assuming the hardware could do it, I suspect the aliasing would be horrible.

PJJ205 wrote in post #18136783
Just sitting here... Twiddling my thumbs... Still waiting for the ability to open and edit raw files in Photoshop CS6. lol. Might end up having to abandon my stand alone photoshop, get a creative cloud account, and give away my money monthly for the photography package then learn how to use Lightroom for this thing!

You can get stand-alone Lightroom and it's already been updated. I'm sitting here twiddling my thumbs waiting for the camera!

Canon cheaped-out on the SD card reader on the 5D Mk3:

http://www.photography​bay.com …ower-than-they-should-be/

http://blog.jeffcable.​com …-put-sd-card-in-your.html

http://petapixel.com …-if-you-care-about-speed/


When I'm shooting anything reasonably fast-paced, I pull the SD card out and write to the CF card only.

PJJ205 wrote in post #18136783
Just sitting here... Twiddling my thumbs... Still waiting for the ability to open and edit raw files in Photoshop CS6. lol. Might end up having to abandon my stand alone photoshop, get a creative cloud account, and give away my money monthly for the photography package then learn how to use Lightroom for this thing!

CS6? Not gonna happen. Adobe haven't updated the version of ACR that'll work with CS6 in ages: http://blogs.adobe.com …upport-policy-in-cs6.html

TBH I didn't know they'd gone as high as ACR 9.1.1. Perhaps I was using an older OS when I last tried to update ACR for CS6 (see https://helpx.adobe.co​m …aw-84-support-policy.html) because I'm pretty certain I couldn't open RAW files from some of my cameras directly in Photoshop (I import into LR, and Open In Photoshop). I must update my ACR!

planet5D wrote in post #18136614
Do you have questions for Canon about the Canon EOS 5D Mark IV? I may be able to do an on camera interview with Canon reps and am gathering questions. I am basing most of my questions on the **** that has gone on about how bad the Canon EOS 5D Mark IV is but was wondering if y’all have questions.

I’m compiling the questions here: https://www.evernote.c​om …VO4pzK0TksKBLhy​2NjI0Fmywk so you can see what I have already

If you're interviewing Canon reps, any chance you could sneak in a question about the 7D Mk2 while you're at it?

On the 7D Mk2, Canon removed metering in the top LCD display (in Manual mode), and nobody seems to know why. I'd love for Canon to bring it back in a firmware update (or hack it myself).

Here's my long-winded gripe about it: Canon 7D Mk2 - Exposure Level Indicator - doesn't show on top LCD screen in Manual mode


OK, back to the 5D Mk4 -

• Why use a slow SD card reader again? Didn't they hear all the complaints when they put a crippled reader in the 5D Mk3?
  
• Why didn't Canon use USB-type C instead of USB 3.0?
  
• Why didn't Canon do what Nikon did, and make the card reader interchangeable? That would have future-proofed the body even more (and Canon could have more 'accessories' to sell us).
  
• No zebras or focus peaking? It would be so easy to add this, and people are expecting this with video now.
  

sploo wrote in post #18136766
I do wonder though how full the 1D body is with electronics. Would it be possible to produce a rebel sized body with 1D power? ..

I do not think that Canon needs a 1D sized body to do this stuff, the 7D2 comes to mind. More MP than 1Dx, at very fast 10 fps. Clearly they are not going to take the speed champs FPS and put it into a $1,700.00 body.
Making the body smaller will not make it more affordable.
So a 1Dx2 in a 5D sized body will not cost less than a 1Dx2.

PJJ205 wrote in post #18136783
Just sitting here... Twiddling my thumbs... Still waiting for the ability to open and edit raw files in Photoshop CS6. lol. Might end up having to abandon my stand alone photoshop, get a creative cloud account, and give away my money monthly for the photography package then learn how to use Lightroom for this thing!

Are they still updating ACR for PS6? I thought they had stopped.

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18136552
How did we ever get by back when the 1D was only 8FPS, with only 20 frames burst in RAW ie not as big as this 5D4? (1D MkII)
This was THE sports camera for over 3 years. No one else had anything that came close. And it was of course faster than the previous model, which had it's own 3 years of dominating the market.

5D4 can do sports better than the 1D series did for 6 years running. And it's doing it with 3-8x more mega-pickles.

Oh I know it can, I was just commenting back to JM. I have no doubts toward the 5D4. I shot seasons of NBA sports with the 5D3, which had a lower fps and a crippled SD slot. The 5D4 is better on both counts.

umphotography wrote in post #18136571
FPS is HIGHLY OVER RATED

Timing is everything

True to an extent. Timing is everything for the initial hit of the shutter, the burst/fps takes care of the action during the next couple of seconds. I don't care how good you are at timing, you are not going to rattle off just 2 or 3 shots of a dunk, for example, and get a good shot each time. The burst gives you the selection to choose from. I never just mash the button at games. In fact, I have enough experience, and basketball is for the most part very predictable, that I can just pick up the camera from my lap and take a few shots here and there of the action, because I know the game and the players (takes a few games each season to get accustomed, but by the end of the season, the gallery shots look so much better).

I would think the same would apply to many other sports, especially those where there are many players involved between you and the action you want to capture. Basketball, football, softball, volleyball, and baseball are my areas, and the above is true for those 5 anyways.

umphotography wrote in post #18136578
The 1Dx2 is not JUST A SPORTS camera

It does anything well.

Im ecstatic with mine. Perfect wedding camera. I think i have used FPS only for wildlife work and sports work a few times since I got it. use the 1Dx2 for every wedding I go to. Great camera for my needs

I am very aware of that. I would even go so far as to say that any camera that is excellent at sports should be equally good at about anything else. Still shots aren't going to be that taxing to a system, neither landscapes or architecture, or even street scenes. It comes down to good glass, composition, creativity, and lighting at that point, and if a camera can produce great sports shots at high ISOs with fast shutter speeds with good contrast and color, why would it be any worse at these other things? This is especially so with a FF sports oriented camera.

Sounds like I'm going to have to teach myself how to use Lightroom ASAP. What's bad is that I have multiple jobs coming up, including one in two days, and I have no idea how to use Lightroom. I've heard that layers aren't even available in Lightroom so I'm in for a real treat lol. Hope the transition isn't as bad as I'm envisioning. That's what I get for getting all tech crazy and buying the 5DIV hahaha

The 5D4 could be made smaller, closer to the 6D size, but Canon chose to keep the same rough footprint of the 5D series.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18136815
The 5D4 could be made smaller, closer to the 6D size, but Canon chose to keep the same rough footprint of the 5D series.

As long as it still needs big lenses, I don't think I'd want a smaller body.