7DII or 5DIV for birds?

I shoot mostly birds so most of my photos are cropped to varying degrees. Will crops from the 7DII generally be better (in good light) because of the higher pixel density, or is it more complicated than that?
I've never had a full frame camera so it's an unknown quantity to me and my interest in the 5DIV is mainly due to the better low light performance - being in the UK means the light is often poor.
I'm currently using a 70D so both would be an upgrade in terms of the AF system but the 7DII wouldn't be any better in low light. I'm struggling to decide whether to sacrifice some resolution for better low light performance because it's difficult to know how much I'd be sacrificing without owning both cameras to compare.

Any help appreciated

NSNO wrote in post #18123083
I shoot mostly birds so most of my photos are cropped to varying degrees. Will crops from the 7DII generally be better (in good light) because of the higher pixel density, or is it more complicated than that?
I've never had a full frame camera so it's an unknown quantity to me and my interest in the 5DIV is mainly due to the better low light performance - being in the UK means the light is often poor.
I'm currently using a 70D so both would be an upgrade in terms of the AF system but the 7DII wouldn't be any better in low light. I'm struggling to decide whether to sacrifice some resolution for better low light performance because it's difficult to know how much I'd be sacrificing without owning both cameras to compare.

Any help appreciated

Depends on 2 things.

2) If you do only bird photography then 7d 2 is the better choice in most situations. But if you do anything else at least 1/2 of your time, then I would get the 5D mkiv.
1) Also depends if you have full-frame lenses?

NSNO wrote in post #18123083
Will crops from the 7DII generally be better (in good light) because of the higher pixel density, or is it more complicated than that?

Good question, something I'd like to know too.

Although I don't know for sure, I'd expect the 5D4 to have better dynamic range than the 7DII.
That means better highlight and shadow recovery.

Let's see what others have to say.

Van Gogh wrote in post #18123206
Depends on 2 things.

2) If you do only bird photography then 7d 2 is the better choice in most situations. But if you do anything else at least 1/2 of your time, then I would get the 5D mkiv.
1) Also depends if you have full-frame lenses?

Birds about 9 months of the year and macro during summer. Lenses are full frame so that's not an issue.
I'm leaning towards the 7DII at the minute, I'll just have to accept it not being so good in poor light

I don't think we'll really know until people get a chance to use them, but I suspect that the 7DII will still be the birding choice. Keep in mind that, if you already crop to begin with, you would be cropping twice to achieve the same result with a FF body. Once to match your starting result from the 70D, at which point you've already thrown out 60% of your image data, and then again in order to reach the desired result.

if you're willing to pay the expected price for a 5D4, you might as well consider a used 1Dx. It's a well established birding camera.

Thanks for the input everyone, I think I'll go for the 7DII

NSNO wrote in post #18124282
Thanks for the input everyone, I think I'll go for the 7DII

7D2 is the way to go here. -3 EV AF is much superior in low light than what you're currently using, this makes a big difference in low light. The resolution is the same roughly, but you're already on top of the pixel density game. There's only one Canon full frame that will have equal pixel density and that's the 5DSR. A 5DIV will have less pixel density than the 7D2. So for resolution purposes, the 7D2 is where you want to be right now. If you're super worried about noise, then a 1DX series is more what you should look into. But honestly, you're not going to bird at ISO 6400 or ISO 12800, so I wouldn't stress it, and you can get clean ISO 1600 & ISO 3200 from the 7D2 no problem. Mean while, you get the robust AF and fast FPS that your 70D lacks by comparison.

It also matters if you're talking BIF or just stationary birding. You don't need max FPS for stationary birds. You also don't need a robust AF for stationary birds. So again, it really comes down to what you're shooting the most of. One thing that is constant is resolution being useful for resolving feather detail, and an AF system that has low light sensitivity of -3 EV (the sensitivity of -3EV is a significant upgrade over your 70D's sensitivity).

Personally, I would rather have the 5DSR myself. But I don't need the maximum FPS. I like that with the 5DSR, you get the pixel density that is equal to the 7D2's, but you get a wider field of view which makes it a lot easier to track a fast moving bird--and my wildlife is 98% birds here in Florida. But I bird at close range. If you're shooting at extreme distance with long lenses, this is probably less of something to worry over. At close range with a telephoto, the arcs you're moving at to pan are very fast paced, so having a wider field of view is an advantage. I bird with fast moving smaller birds at the shoreline mostly here in Florida (think Terns), which is why I bring this up (I get so close that I don't even use my 600mm anymore, I use my 300mm more these days).

Very best,

Another vote for 7D2. Plus you save $2k!

The 7DII would have greater depth of field for macro work as well I believe.

Regarding the pixels/cropping discussion. the 5D4 will put 11.7 of it's 30MP into a 1.6x crop.

So right off the bat, the 7D2 is putting almost double the photo-sites on the same area.

However you ask this in a strange way;

The 5D4 will crop better given the same percentage crop from each camera. 30 MP to start, and better IQ to start.

However if we are talking about cropping down to the same FOV as a 7D2 image ( as in my first example above) the 7D2 wins with nearly double the pixels on target.


If you don't need a camera that will do it all, but rather want a camera that excels at birding, the 7D2 is your beasty.

Be sure to properly expose the 7DII at higher ISO. if you under expose this sensor, you are bound to not be happy with the result. (muddy color, less sharp when under) best to throw it into auto ISO mode, and set your shutter and f stop and go from there on overcast days. Proper exposure is everything to pull the best pictures from this camera.

Don't be afraid of the 7D2. It is a fine camera. ETTR is always good, regardless of the camera. I have had perfectly good images at 3200 ISO from the 7D2, so noise performance is more than adequate.

Is the 5D4 a better general purpose camera? Sure, it's also 2 years newer. But for your stated use, the 7D2 is a better choice. Use the 2K towards getting a big white prime to go with it!

I've ordered a 7DII, I'm blaming everyone off here if I hate it

Here is an underexposed test from the 7d2.
It did alright.
https://photography-on-the.net …showthread.php?​p=17718072